In this episode of Retaili$tic, Deborah Weinswig speaks with Ben Miller and Joe Laszlo about the upcoming Shoptalk Fall event, discussing the evolving landscape of retail, the impact of generative AI, and the importance of retail media. They explore the expectations of retailers and brands, the challenges posed by supply chain issues, and the significance of new technologies like RFID in addressing loss prevention. The discussion also touches on the contrasting performance of different retail sectors during earnings season and the need for curiosity and adaptability in the face of rapid change.
The video version of this podcast is here
Takeaways
Shoptalk Fall focuses on immediate retail needs for the next six months.
Retail media is a significant topic but should not overshadow other strategic points.
The grocery industry is facing unique challenges compared to other retail sectors.
Generative AI is seen as a transformative technology for retail.
Supply chain agility is crucial in the current economic climate.
RFID technology is becoming essential for inventory management and loss prevention.
Retailers must balance short-term needs with long-term strategic planning.
The emotional connection with customers can drive brand loyalty.
New technologies are changing the landscape of retail, making old solutions relevant again.
Curiosity and openness to new ideas are vital for retail success.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Shop Talk Fall 2023
01:53 What's New at Shop Talk Fall
04:05 Expectations of Retailers and Brands
08:11 The Role of Retail Media
10:20 Retail Media Evolution in Grocery
12:18 Impact of New Technologies on CPG
15:39 Earnings Season Insights
19:20 Generative AI in Retail
24:01 Supply Chain Challenges and Innovations
30:23 Reviving Old Technologies in New Ways
33:47 Generational Shifts in Retail Engagement
36:03 Navigating Retail Choices and Consumer Preferences
36:42 Lightning Round: Buzzwords and Retail Recognition
39:57 Spotlight on Retail Turnarounds
43:52 Innovative Startups in Retail
46:05 Cities as Retail Inspiration
48:51 Defining Retail in a Changing Landscape
49:33 Memorable Moments in Retail Events
52:50 Personal Reflections on Career Paths
Welcome to Retali$tic, the official podcast of Coresight Research for September 2nd, 2025. This week, Coresight Research CEO Deborah Weinswig interviews Ben Miller, Vice President of Original Content and Strategy and Joe Lazlo, Global Head of Insights for Shoptalk and Groceryshop to discuss the big challenges ahead for retail and the peer solutions soon to be revealed in Chicago and Las Vegas. But first Isla is here from the London office. What do you have for us this week, Isla?
This week, keep an eye out for our latest insights. We'll be previewing Grocery Shop 2025 with a look at the musty presentations and the panels at the biggest grocery events in the US, whilst also tracking major retail companies' recent results in our 2Q25 earnings insights report. All the updates you need in one place.
Thanks Isla, now here’s Deborah with Ben and Joe.
Deborah Weinswig (00:01.957)
Excellent. Well, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever everybody is. Ben and Jo, we are so excited to have you with us today to talk about so many things. But I can't believe it's already that time of year for Shop Talk Fall. why don't you guys, not that you need any introduction, but why don't you guys both, Ben is on the left, my screen and Jo is on the right. So Ben, why don't we start with you and then turn it over to Jo.
Ben (00:27.426)
Okay, thank you. Hi, Debra, thank you for welcoming us back on. Delighted to be here and delighted it's kind of another year of collaboration and cooperation between Shop Talk and Grocery Shop and yourself and CoreSight. So thank you once again. My name's Ben, Ben Miller. I am the VP for original content at Shop Talk and Grocery Shop. That means I've got...
The privilege of working across Lightjoe, our full portfolio of now five global shop talk and grocery shop shows. And I get to coordinate the research, the insights and bring some of our own fresh thinking to the shows. And my background is firstly as a retailer within grocery and then a long time agency side and consultancy side helping brands and CPGs trade better with their retail partners.
Deborah Weinswig (01:19.715)
Right, Joe.
Joe Laszlo (01:21.315)
Debra, it's always a pleasure to get to talk with you, whether we're on screen or just over coffee. I'm Joe Laszlo. I'm Global Head of Insights at Shop Talk, which means, like Ben, I have a global role. Somebody described it as meddling the other day. I look after Shop Talk's overall point of view on retail innovation and transformation and make sure that the individual content team members who are programming the individual shows are all kind of in harmony with one another, that Shop Talk takes
perspective across our shows around the world.
Deborah Weinswig (01:55.055)
Excellent. All right. So what's new and different this year?
Joe Laszlo (02:00.823)
So much is new and different. So this is the second year we're doing a shop talk fall
was really exciting to launch the show last year. I think for this year, some things similar, some things different. It will be a fast-paced, tightly programmed show over two and a half, three days in Chicago. I think a couple of big things. We've really kind of taken a focus on the immediate needs of the retail industry, right? Where Shop Talk in the spring is more about the long-term future of retail. Shop Talk in the fall, at least this fall, is gonna be much more about what retail
and consumer brand leaders need to be ready for the next three months to six months as they plan for 2026. A second interesting fun thing that we're doing is being a lot more hands-on with our delegates than we have in the past. So the entire first half day of Shop Talk Fall this year is going to be devoted to a series of store tours where we'll be taking retailer and brand attendees around to see some of the most innovative retail experiences in the Chicago area from Wayfair's physical store out in the suburbs to Jonathan
leading a tour of his flagship store in downtown Chicago. So I think that'll be really, really fun. And one more thing I'll throw out.
is we think this is a moment where amongst all the other change going on in the industry, it's a moment for rethinking what's in senior leaders' toolkits, professionally speaking, either their technology toolkits or their human capability toolkits. And so we've programmed across the two and a half days of content at the show, a track that will be a whole bunch of senior leaders talking about exactly that, how they're keeping their teams focused, productive.
Joe Laszlo (03:40.993)
connected, happy in times of dramatic change.
Deborah Weinswig (03:46.501)
So there's a lot to digest. mean, Ben, from your point of view, how is, right, in some ways you have a lot of clients of the show, right? You've got speakers and attendees and, you know, obviously parent company, et cetera. How is what each of them, like, what are their expectations and how have they changed?
Ben (04:12.91)
Oh yeah, what a great question. And I think it's slightly different if we think about where we are with Shop Talk 4, where we are with Grocery Shop. If we take Shop Talk 4...
over and over and over over over again, regardless if you're a retailer, if you're a brand, or if you are a company servicing the industry, there's sort two things that overshadow all conversations. One is dealing with the uncertainty around tariffs, and the second is how you capture and grasp the opportunity of AI. So what we have sought to do in an
agenda and then a proposition for the whole show is to make sure we dedicate time to both. Now, and how you do both is very different. There is no point, and you and I, we've talked about this before and you shared your experiences. I know you told me, Deborah, when you've been kind of staying up all night rewriting a presentation because the world's changed on tariffs in the last 24 hours. We're trying to take a step back from that and leaning more into
the capabilities, the tool kits, the ability to deal with change, with pricing fluctuation and the leadership skills required to lead your business through that rather than necessarily drilling into what percentage from what country at any one point in time, because that's changing so much.
We're absolutely focusing on that. What we're also doing at ShopTop4, as Joe just talked about, is saying, look, we know these two things are massive, but there's all these other things that are incredibly important in your organisation. So let's make sure we can go out and celebrate great merchandising. We can look at great retail. We can look at how we install tech is driving efficiency and engagement. So trying to help ensure we have a rounded conversation that creates opportunities for everybody, as well as focusing on those two big things.
Ben (06:16.032)
If you then hop over to grocery, the grocery industry is in a really different place. Grocery shop is a more global show and it is less, because of the extent of local production, is less impacted by tariffs. Not, not...
unimpacted, but just impacted different, whereas other factors like changing consumer preferences, GLP ones, trends around health, these things that make America healthy again, these things are having a bigger impact potentially on the long term. So in grocery, you've got an industry which is actually really focused on the short term right now, which is...
struggling to find growth, particularly if you're a branded CPG. So our approach at Grocery Shop is to say, look, we need to do two things. We need to help you into here and now, but we also need to help you find space to stand back and look at some of these seismic changes that are happening in the industry and help you in a position to grasp those opportunities. So it's a bit of a double-edged sword. If you talk too much about the long-term to a group of people who are having a really hard time now,
you lose the room. But if you only talk about what's happening now and ignore those seismic changes, then we're not doing our duty to industry. So it's a really interesting balancing act that we're walking with across both shows, I think.
Deborah Weinswig (07:46.021)
So I'll say retail media came on the show floor literally a few years ago and really the retailers, if you think about the amount that they talk about as it relates to earnings, as it relates to strategies and spending as well as bottom line benefits, some of these topics that take a show almost by storm, how do you think about
the appropriate amount of literally floor space and mine space to give them.
Ben (08:20.782)
Yeah, great question. And maybe if I take it up from a grocery perspective and Joe, you can talk about four, because it's two different routes. I think what we are, the way we're looking at it at a grocery shop is we've boiled.
All of our conversation is down to, if you were a CPG, what's keeping you awake at night? And if you're a grocery retailer, what's keeping you awake at night? What are the big questions? And for a branded CPG, it's all about how do you drive volume and how do you grow that digital capability to be able to do all the great digital demand creation that you need to do and then you deliver it physically. If you're a grocery retailer, how do you drive your stores to be as engaging and efficient as
possible.
What we then say, okay, retail media, how is retail media helping those questions? Because I think one of the things we're very cognizant of is that retail media can, it can suck the oxygen from the room. And what we need to do is make sure it layers up to the biggest strategic points. And in some places, it will absolutely help on those objectives. And in other places, it's noise or switching of spend. So our approach is to have...
mindful conversations really deliberately about how retail media is helping change and it can help you grow and can help you drive engagement and move away from
Ben (09:50.382)
you know, the very basics of retail media, the what is retail media, the, you know, the switching of spend from trade spend. We need to be more strategic. I think we do that at a time that retail media and groceries changing into something different. Yeah. And we can come back to this if we want, but retail media is taking a different route. It's not quite a fork in the road. more of a, it's a junction. It's a turn. It's a tributary that's running alongside, but retail media in the grocery industry
becoming something new and different and we want to talk about that but we can come back to that Joe talk share about you know the thinking around fall because fall is different
Joe Laszlo (10:29.549)
Yeah, sure. So I definitely think of the two shows that we have going on in September. Grocery Shop is spending more time strategically talking about the evolution of retail media in grocery and CPG in particular. Grocery was the pioneering space for a lot of retail media innovation. So it just kind of makes sense that there'd be a lot of that conversation programmed into the grocery shop agenda. At Shop Talk Fall, to Ben's point, know, retail
media outside of grocery and CPG is a little different, evolving slightly differently and slightly in a way that I think is slightly more integrated maybe with the rest of a brand's media spend. so that's sort of the context that we're taking for Shop Talk Fall is there's one or two sessions about retail media specifically, but more I think it will be a topic of conversation as we're talking with CMOs about their overall media planning. And so it certainly has a role.
but I think kind of one option amongst a whole bunch that senior marketing leaders have on their plates today.
Deborah Weinswig (11:38.085)
So I was always, it was really interesting. I remember having a conversation with a large CPG and they said, for retailers, this is an 11 and for us, it's a two. And if we think about, like we lined up a timeline and if you think about kind of this retail media taking the world by storm and then the storm that's hit the CPG industry, they're kind of one and the same.
How do we think about the impact of a new technology or leaning into this technology? I would say that the, if somebody had told me 24 months ago that we would see this amount of activity in the CPG space, I would not have suggested that. So Ben, how do you think about that?
Ben (12:27.404)
Yeah, look, it's a great question and it's something we think about a lot. We need to get the right balance between reflecting the conversation in retail media but not...
fueling the hype or not. We are very aware that it's an extra demand for funds for the CPGs. So which is why we sort of boil it back to, okay, if you're a branded CPG, everything right now is about how do you drive volume? And it has to be about how do you drive volume? And how do you face into those headwinds?
When you look at retail media, you then stand back and you say, actually within grocery, it's changing. So you have...
online based retail media. have prioritising and bidding for search terms and placements within architectures on retailer e-commerce sites, which has always been there. It's just been called something a bit different, but we understand and we appreciate it. What we also recognise is 80 to 90 % of the traffic for grocery goes through physical stores. And in a physical store environment on the whole, it's really difficult to do.
the stuff that we are used to online with retail media. It's really hard to generate close-loop attribution. It's really hard to generate personalization to be able to have that one-to-one connection. So what we've seen in retailers thinking about, how do we monetize the asset that we have, which is this incredible footfall that goes through our physical stores? And it's less about bottom of the funnel conversion, which is traditional in retail media. It's much more about top of funnel brand building awareness.
Ben (14:12.769)
driving.
for a branded CPG, okay, anything to run bottom of the funnel is already there in trade spend and that might be some duplication, but actually how can I use these retailer store environments to create brand awareness and drive that top of funnel? That's a new muscle. That's something that has been, their agencies will take care of, it will be out of home, in the heyday it would have been on TV. Well, the retailers are now saying, we're gonna give you
the platform to be able to do that install. And then we can actually, if you do it really well, link it all together with the online and digital bits as well. So what it creates is a new marketing channel for the CPGs and the CPUs got to bring together their trade, their brand, their different bits of the marketing with their online. So it's a different approach to agencies. It's a different text that's required. But in a world where growth is really hard to come by and go and the...
Demographic challenges will mean that Groovy's gonna be even harder to come by. These are the things that, if you're a CPG, you've probably gotta get behind. And so therefore it's important for us to bring that to the table and to help people understand just how significant he's changing in grocery.
Deborah Weinswig (15:33.317)
That's an interesting point. mean, Joe, how do you see the kind of stark contrast, right? We're two-thirds of the way through earnings season right now between the haves and the have-nots, between apparel, footwear, accessories, and grocery CPG. What do you see as some of the major differences?
Joe Laszlo (15:57.229)
That is a great question, right? I think we're all kind of keeping an eye on, you know, kind of the big public retailers and their earnings reporting. And it really does kind of feel like, I don't know, for everybody that's doing really, really well and comps are up and foot traffic is up, there's somebody who's doing not so well and kind of struggling with a process of reinvention. you know, it's such a big change from, say, four or five years ago, which I guess puts us back in the middle of like the
the pandemic moment where everybody was doing better or doing worse kind of all at once. It was like there's this massive tide and there was like in the world at that moment that like all the retailers and brands were doing better or worse simultaneously. And now we're in this world where I don't know. I think it comes down to execution, not to be cliche, but customer centricity. I think the retailers and brands that really think about who is our customer and what do they want right now and how can we best give it to them, whether that's
value, whether that's joy, whether that's new experiences or old experiences. I think the companies that are executing well against customer expectations are being rewarded by customers and the companies that have maybe lost sight a little bit of what their customers need or want from them are the ones that are kind of having this moment of, well, who are we really and who is our customer and what does she, he or they want now?
Ben (17:22.839)
We had a lot of fun when we were thinking about Shop Talk 4 and the proposition for this show and kind of trying to unpick. You're absolutely right.
if it's no longer down to the tide of who does well or not, it's down to retailer strategies. Okay, well, what are the winning strategies? And what are the things, what do we wanna showcase and what do we want to shout about? And it was from that thinking came the theme that you'll see when you're in Chicago, which is all about, we call it retail alchemy, but it's basically blending kind of science with emotion. It's...
magic with kind of strong operations and the basics. So where we see fantastic retails, we see they are able to both be great operators and we exploring everything that's encompassing with that and using data and science, but also have that emotional connection and drive that engagement with their shoppers. And we're going to look at that and what that means in terms of storytelling, in terms of marketing, in terms of branding.
And I think when you look across earnings seasons, you can see those retailers that are actually operating and delivering really, really well and also activating that emotional connection in their customers' minds. And ultimately, when we think about price volatility,
Tariffs, you one of the great things that retailers and brands can do to give themselves permission if they need to move prices is to generate that emotional connection. So that's, you know, the emotion can overcome the rational. And yeah, we'll be talking a lot about that in Chicago, about how do you create and how do you drive that emotion?
Deborah Weinswig (19:13.593)
Yeah, I mean, I think that this, you know, the other part of this is there's, well, twofold. what I found when it comes to Gen. AI, retailers are really interested in talking to tech companies in a way that I haven't seen, right? As opposed to, I'm going to duck because I see a tech company coming my way. It's like, let me run after them.
Ben (19:41.326)
yet.
Deborah Weinswig (19:41.881)
What do you think is the difference between Gen.A.I. and other technologies?
Ben (19:48.652)
Yeah, it's a great question. think, so let me come in from a grocery and then I'll let you build on Joe from Shop Talk. It's the unknown, so.
I mean, no matter where we are on the journey, and a lot of people are putting a lot of effort in, and Debra and I know yourself from CoreSight, your AA council, you are doing a lot to kind of champion and to get people to experiment and learn. But we know so many people are still at first base, and the base that they're at keeps changing. And you think you've moved forward, but the technology's moved forward again. It's super hard to catch up.
It's about the belief that there is potential there and trying to figure out how to unlock it in their organisation. So that's why at a grocery shop this year, we're covering it really from two levels. One is the strategic, where do you think it's going, what are we gonna do, but also the hands-on practical. So on the first day of the show, on Sunday, and the final day on Wednesday, we're running something that we're calling our test kitchen. It's brand new for grocery shop this year. And these are smaller, more sort of workshop environments where you will have
and experts, consultants on stage, plus retailers and brands talking about some really specific areas and sharing how they are going about doing things from SEO strategies in a gen AI world to how to build and prepare your data in your tech stack and to make the most of AI. There's also some kind of non AI tech topics as well because we know there are...
digital shelf and great digital shelf, because it's not just limited to AI, but we absolutely feel that there is, we are at this inflection point of wanting to understand the big picture, but knowing that the big picture is changing the whole time, she can't keep up. So therefore, how do I activate on what's there in front of me right now?
Joe Laszlo (21:39.117)
Yeah, that was a great answer, Ben. I'm not really, this may be an area where the whole of the retail world and maybe the whole of the world is more similar than different, right? But I guess the only things that I would add are probably, I think the technology experts, if anybody is an expert within a retailer brand, think, let me take that a different way. think when you think about AI and maybe what makes AI different from,
I don't know, an old school data analytics package or an e-commerce tech stack or whatever. think we're all kind of hearing that the things that make AI initiatives work best are kind of a sense of curiosity and then secondarily a sense of trust. I think as we're all just sort of curious about like, can this being kind of all of the various applications of generative AI and maybe early agentic AI, what can it do? I think there's sort of this sense of like, let's kick the tires.
see because maybe this is going to be transformative for my business and that curiosity maybe makes a CTO or a VP of e-commerce more curious when they hear from a new solution that they haven't heard from before as opposed to somebody that's just maybe a little bit more of the same or a slightly nuanced version of something that's come before. I think it's the sheer variety of applications of generative AI and the fact that we're all just inherently a little bit curious about what
what it can really do that's kind of driving openness to have conversations where in other spaces that may not be the case where we're all a little more jaded.
Deborah Weinswig (23:16.429)
You know, Joe, that's such a great, it's interesting. I've started to use the curious word to kind of define, right? If we look at, right, this earnings season, we go back to last week, right? You have Target, TJ, Walmart, who all reported within 24 hours of each other. And if anything, I would say Walmart, despite its size, right? They've really leaned into this idea around curiosity. TJ Maxx as well, and I think Target not so much.
And I think in this day and age with a lot of the new technology solutions out there, right? You have to like suspend belief and just kind of go with it, right? And lean into it. And for some organizations, I think that can be incredibly difficult. And then with tariffs, the challenges and supply chain, right? I think it's even much more so exasperated. So I think that that's, that's the key point. mean, you know, Ben, from your perspective, how are we seeing kind of
supply chain and you know I would kind of, obviously there's a backdrop of tariffs there, but how is that kind of taking more more headspace for people?
Ben (24:26.892)
Yeah, really, really good question. And I think the...
I love you, boo.
One of the things we are very, very, mindful of is AI has played a really significant role in supply chains for a long time. So, you know, AI in supply chain is not new. And if you take the fullness of supply chain from demand forecasting and demand planning through to the physical delivery, the majority of scale retailers could not operate their demand planning and forecasting without a level of AI.
What we're now seeing is probably threefold. So, number one is how can you move from demand forecasting to demand...
prediction. how can you bring social listening and trend? This is particularly in apparel and bring that further in forward. So you're to get in front of the trends before you can, you're building out your supply chain. And there are AI tools out there that are working on that and are helping in that. We think that that's really, really useful. The second element is end supply chain visibility.
Ben (25:49.422)
And I think we're sticking with apparel. We're at a tip and we'll be talking about this a lot in Chicago. We're at a tipping point now where.
The cost of RFID chips is probably not the barrier it once was for the benefit that you get in terms of the inventory visibility, your ability to stock check, your ability to know what's in stock and to link it up, not just in your online, but in your physical store. So whether it's RFID in an apparel store, whether it's robotics in a grocery store, having a clearer...
knowledge and visibility of your inventory and then being able to connect that through your ability to understand large volumes of data to better move that stock is crucial for running kind of modern Ecoms as well as monstors. And then you've got the kind of the production schedule section of it. How can you reduce that? And this is the bit which is, you know,
having the most impact through tariffs and uncertainty, getting things through the ports at the moment, knowing where you want to be producing in six months to a year's time. This is tough stuff and it's changing all the time. But again, so therefore the way we look at it and the way we think we can help is by leaning into all the areas around supply chain agility and helping with tools, processes, visibility around trying to make supply chains as agile as possible. And you know, we've just done this a couple of years.
ago. know, 2021, 2022 is all about supply chain of agility, about visibility of what's in stock. So there is a degree of muscle memory that we can lean into. But I think if you lean, if you layer all those three things together, it's a super interesting time in supply chain. Super interesting. don't know. What do you think Deborah?
Deborah Weinswig (27:43.769)
I mean, I think you bring up a lot of important points and it was interesting and scary. I will be honest. We met with the, from LPRC, Loss Prevention Research Council, Corey Lowe, and I'm on their advisory board and we meet once a month and, you know, it's funny. I rarely say an hour is not enough time, but truly there it's not.
And so I had the opportunity to sit down with Corey at an ACDS in San Diego, I guess it was just this past week for almost, well, almost three hours. And I probably could have sat there for another three, but his take was on RFID as being a major kind of key technology to mitigate.
a lot of the challenges right now. And if we think about what's happening with organized retail crime or shrink, however we want to refer to it, and there's of course product walking out the back door and the front door, but you don't want to put your associates in harm's way. so what we're seeing, once again, it's not like POS has become a key aspect of this kind
Ben (28:47.341)
Yep.
Deborah Weinswig (29:08.121)
bigger challenge that everyone's facing. And so we've seen, and it's across the board, right? It's like Zebra, D-Bowl, Nixdorf, GKI Software, right? We've seen all of them. And actually it was so interesting, right? So I was at NRF in New York in January, and then I was at NRF APAC in June. And I've never, going back to Gen. AI, what everyone was talking about theoretically in January was like POC'd in June.
And so this ability for like age verification for ways that the associate doesn't put themselves in harm's way to, right, you you put your hand over a barcode and, you know, and you scan it and you end up having, right, the software is having a conversation. Hey, would you, do you think about, you know, would you like to think about rerunning some of that? It's like, it's asking some of the questions to, you know,
to kind of mitigate some of this, but without kind of putting the associate in the middle. And I think that those are some of the things that have gotten really interesting. then digital signage was also brought up on this call and we're starting to see ESLs, digital signage, some of these amazing screens, right? Which gosh, I went back in time and looked at it, right? Like in 2012, Walmart was talking about this.
But it was just too early. so Joe, how are you looking at some of these really kind of new topics, well, I guess old but new, new again topics kind of coming back to the forefront, but almost in a different skin?
Joe Laszlo (30:52.173)
Yeah, I think it's...
I love that question because I am an old timer on the Shop Talk content team, right? I've been around here for seven years. So looking at technologies like electronic shelf labels, screens, some applications of AI for not a long time, certainly not relative to some of my peers in the industry, but for kind of a long time now. as I look at companies that are participating in like our startup pitch, it's very rare these days that I hear from somebody
who's like, have never heard that before, that is completely brand new to me. And I sometimes feel like I'm getting a little jaded. And I think it's incumbent on all of us maybe to realize it or to remember that just because some of these technologies have been around for a decade plus, the economics of them have changed radically, the ways that they are being brought to market are changing radically, and the business opportunities that they present are changing significantly too. I mean, think 10 or 12 years
years ago it would have seemed a little...
Ben (31:56.108)
Yeah. Yeah.
Joe Laszlo (31:59.979)
challenging for a mass retailer anyway to kind of RFID tag every piece of apparel in a store. And nowadays those economics make a lot of sense and the capabilities they give both in terms of like, you know, that magical kind of bin-based self-checkout for a customer, being able to help customers in a changing room because you know instantly what they've got with them and what size it is and can bring them another size if they need it really easily. And just for the people that keep the front of the house stocked, you know, to know
well ahead of time, this is in the wrong place, or we've only got three of those in this size, so bring a few more from the back to the front. And that's just in the world of apparel. So again, guess it's about keeping an open mind, staying curious, and realizing that just because the technology has maybe been around for a while, that doesn't mean that the cool innovators that are working with that technology have been standing still.
Ben (32:54.178)
And then you've also got to change your business cases. mean, one of my favorite examples is absolutely, there's digital screens. I was talking to a retailer who was placing more digital screens in their stores. And they said, well, our chief merchant had an epiphany moment. And that epiphany moment was because we now have our retail media network, they put screens in stores and suddenly it's a new pot of money they're accessing. It's this brand pot of money. And he said,
is that I've never spoken to marketing agencies before. And so it's like, great, I really wanna do more of this because I've unlocked a new pot of funding for me. So sometimes it's about the technology and sometimes it's just a kind of a case of when the bits of the technology are add together into something bigger, then it opens up a new use case that makes sense for everybody involved.
Deborah Weinswig (33:46.703)
Well, and I would say like one of the biggest changes is right is you have consumers who are more used to getting kind of critical information through video. And so I always, it's interesting when you have a location with and you walk around the store and everyone is kind of staring there, but the idea is right there upleveling while they're shopping to know more about the product, more about, know, especially they have any food allergies, but
They're really learning. And so I almost think that this experience to the store is evolving in a way we hadn't seen. And certainly, visits from Gen Z versus millennials, that alone, I don't think anybody would have expected Gen Z to be like a store's first generation. In some cases, you're seeing almost a 4,000 basis point difference just by generation for the same retailer.
And that I think is all right. We're seeing kind of a lot of companies lean back into catalogs and direct mail. And so, you know, and it's funny, right? I was talking to bunch of folks and everyone's like, you know, my kids are asking me about what it was like to have like a corded phone, right? What was it like to have? And someone was telling me, this is even more interesting, that there's a huge demand now for cassette tapes. But, Walkmans, or Walk...
I don't know it's like walk people or walk men's whatever anyways, but it's this idea, right? Kind of like what's old, but like really old is new again. And that I find to be, I mean, actually a head scratcher, but be a huge opportunity in retail. I don't know, Joe, if you've seen any of this.
Joe Laszlo (35:31.565)
Yeah, I think one of the things that makes this moment so interesting is there's a lot of choice. If you're a retailer or consumer brand executive, you have a whole bunch of different options available to you as far as store design goes or brand experience or just all of the various channels and media and platforms you can use to reach your customers. And I think the tricky thing is we all want the answer. We all want the simple do this and all your problems will be solved, whether it's about tariffs
or media plans or whatever. And for better or for worse, like this is a world where there is not a simple answer and a lot of different things can work depending on who you are, who your audience is and what you're trying to do. And so, even just talking about screens in stores, right? I absolutely think a lot of stores will be deploying more screens in the near future. And I think that can absolutely work for some retailers, but I also think there's a countervailing trend where I think some retailers are thinking more and more about making the experience as tangible
and not screen-based as possible because in some situations that's the right thing to do. And again, it's not like one of these is right and one of them is wrong. It's that you have this panoply of options and a whole spectrum of levels of presence in between the two extremes. And as a retailer, you just really have to think hard about what your customers want, what serves the kinds of products you're carrying best, and then make a bet and try. Or maybe have a few stores that are the experimental stores and see what the
responses before you roll something out more widely. But again, I think it's a moment of a lot of options, which is confusing, but also kind of exciting as well.
Deborah Weinswig (37:11.353)
That's a great point. I can't believe we're already at our lightning round. So neither of you have seen these questions. So it's fun and fast. One word or sentence answers and you can phone a friend. And obviously there's two of you right here. So, but you know, if you want to pass, I'm good with that as well. all right. So then we're going to start with you alphabetical order. Biggest buzzword you secretly roll your eyes at.
Ben (37:39.886)
I secretly roll my eyes every time somebody declares that something is dead. Like, it's the death of physical retail or it's the death of... Just no. No, no, don't. Don't do that.
Deborah Weinswig (37:53.237)
I was just I was just with somebody recently and they're like, this is dead. This is dead. And I was like, I'm like, where is this coming from? And like, it was it was just like proclamation, right? Like, it's so funny joke.
Ben (38:05.389)
Yeah.
Joe Laszlo (38:09.017)
I'm starting to roll my eyes just a little bit at the word agendic in front of things. And that's not because I don't think it's on its way to being a real thing, but I think it's one of those adjectives that everybody's talking about. And so whether something is legit agendic or not, I'm starting to see it a lot of places. so that gets a little bit of an eye roll from me, at least for now.
Ben (38:26.126)
Okay.
Deborah Weinswig (38:34.277)
All right, a retailer you think deserves more credit right now. Joe, we're going to start with you.
Joe Laszlo (38:41.689)
more credit. Man, I think all of my ideas there are going to be the same ones that everybody else has.
Wow, I'm totally blowing this lightning round.
Ben (38:59.758)
Go on.
Deborah Weinswig (39:00.345)
Like I said, can find, I mean, I'll tell you, I'll jump in. I thought what was fascinating is that during Prime Day week, which I guess that's the right year, Prime, mean, was start off as a day, now it's almost a week, but you saw companies I wouldn't have expected, right, like lean into it, but like really lean into it, not just kind of be like we're participating, and that was Kohl's, Dick's, and Ulta. And so I have to say, right, like,
Since July, I've been really like scratching my head on how they jumped in so quickly, right? What was it that made them think that this was kind of something where they want to spend time and effort and then the results that they saw. And so I don't know, like I said, there's a few that I've been scratching my head at in a good way, right? Where there are always kind of breadcrumbs along the way before.
Ben (39:36.984)
Mmm.
Deborah Weinswig (39:54.829)
a company has a breakout. I don't know, they all impressed me and you know, like I said, I'm watching those three closely.
Ben (40:02.136)
Yeah. Let me, I think I've got a really interesting one, which I feel very close to and certainly gets a lot of recognition in the UK, but might not always be at the front of everybody's radar in the US. And that's Marks and Spencer's. So the reason I call Marks and Spencer's out is we could have a whole nother podcast and there has been many on what's going on with US department stores.
Yeah, &S is a traditional UK department store that is going through a phenomenal turnaround. think right now, if you were to go into an &S store, but unrecognizable from ones you might have seen if you were in Europe, say, pre-pandemic, their food division is running probably the best chain grocery stores in Europe at the moment. And I certainly don't say that lightly.
On top of that, they were the victims of a horrific cyber attack. I mean, just awful. to have pulled through that so strongly, there's a lot of lessons for that. So I would encourage everybody, if you are US based, if you're traveling in Europe, make sure you could go and see an M &S. If you're in the department store sector, see what they do. And what that's also done is that that sort of the beast.
Deborah Weinswig (41:06.693)
Yeah.
Ben (41:31.17)
that is John Lewis. So John Lewis Partnership is the other big UK department store. They are under the leadership of Jason Tary, who formerly ran Tesco in the UK. They're on a turnaround as well. They're a bit behind, but the signs of life are really interesting. I see more signs of life in department stores, looking at those two, than I do when I'm in the US. So I think...
Joe Laszlo (41:56.387)
This is...
So interesting, Ben, because my answer, which I've been thinking about for a while, as Debra, we're completely blowing the rules of your lightning round, was Macy's. I mean, I'm the member of the Shop Talk content team that's been the Macy's apologist for like a good long time now. yeah, mean, and going back to Ben's point about things being dead, right? mean, the American department store is dead. think department stores still have a lot of relevance. I think they have a lot of change that they need to go through. I think there's going to be some pain for most of
Ben (42:04.44)
Ha
Ben (42:17.901)
Hahaha
Joe Laszlo (42:27.011)
big chains but I think Macy's is putting the foundations in place for a turnaround that may not happen before the end of the year but I think in the next year or so I think we'll see the seeds of something really interesting and new grow from them as well. So I thought department stores as well.
Deborah Weinswig (42:40.965)
I have to share a great Tony Springs story where I would go to his office for a 30 minute meeting and all of a sudden, I don't know, and he has this magic about him. All of a sudden we have half his team. I'm presenting a deck that I delivered recently and three hours goes by and I'm like, and it's every time and I'm like, what is it the power of Tony, right? But he's very much leads with education.
And so if, and very inclusive. And so I think that there's something very special about his leadership style. And, you know, and he also brings up, I'm like, I would leave and I'd be like, I learned so much because I was, was talking to the leadership team. They learned a lot, right? From just kind of the overall discussion. But I will say on the Marks and Spencer side, I was just in Hong Kong a few weeks ago and I was on Queens road and I was
I thought I was gonna have time to go back to my hotel to change, but I didn't. And I was meeting a very senior person and let's just say I was a little underdressed. So I run into Marks and Spencer because it's like literally right there when I have this like aha moment. And I was incredibly impressed with quality, size range, you know, how helpful the staff was. And it was one of those things, it's like.
wow, they really understand kind of in their, know, whether it's, you know, demand planning, inventory allocation, assortment, they really understand this customer. So I would agree with you on that, Ben. That's a very interesting one. All right, next question, and I think it's Ben's chance to start, a startup that has your attention but isn't mainstream yet.
Ben (44:29.134)
that's really interesting. So we have got speaking at our upcoming shows, Vellon, although I do believe Michael has just changed the name. So Vellon is a new startup from Michael Garvey, who many of you will know, founded Trigo, knows our industry well, really interesting guy. And he started a startup, which is all around creating...
team members who are AI and the extent to which they've taken it just on the first use case which is around commercial negotiation is fascinating so I'm keeping a very close eye on that one.
Deborah Weinswig (45:11.205)
Yeah, you gotta follow the founder, Joe.
Ben (45:14.029)
Yeah.
Joe Laszlo (45:14.553)
Alright.
Yes, there's a company speaking at Shop Talk Fall called Alembic, A-L-E-M-B-I-C. They are a new way of measuring advertising effectiveness that actually takes technologies that were developed during the pandemic for contact tracing and uses it to kind of track how messaging is resonating with shoppers across all the many platforms and channels that marketers use these days. I think the world has wanted something new in the world of return on ad spend for a while now.
Maybe is a company that will deliver that.
Deborah Weinswig (45:49.285)
I'm starting to see, it's interesting, a lot of founders who are kind of trying their hand at something new that is more in the physical good space. And because they can kind of see it, touch it, taste it, feel it, right? There's this really interesting, there's a lot around kind of...
personalization and customization. So there's companies like Iambic and Alieta and they get on stage and I find like I lose myself while they're speaking because it's all of these things that on paper sound great, but they have like a real business model. So I think that's been really interesting. All right, Joe, favorite city for retail inspiration.
Joe Laszlo (46:43.981)
Well, I gotta say New York, right? I'm based in New York City. The store that I can't stop talking about whenever anybody asks me about retail experiences, the new Printemps downtown here. I've been exploring retail around the city, places I don't normally go, like the Glossier store in SoHo, just because I'm not actually their target customer. don't have any millennial or Gen Z kids in my life right now.
So anyways, I think New York inspires me retail-wise.
Deborah Weinswig (47:14.841)
I thought you were going say either, it's funny, if I were to like, you know, kind of put a pin in it, I thought you might say Luckin coffee or Lidl. So Lidl open and there was like, when I tell you every time I've gone, there's a line around the block, right? And that doesn't, you know, kind of, right? That's not kind of changing in any way, or form. And then Luckin, right? You're there. And especially when you're there with people who it's their first time.
You know, there's almost like these squeals of delight because people are getting a coupon. And, and I got to tell you, it's so interesting, right? This idea of, Like, how do you, it's a very basic retail, but how do you bounce the customer back? And then, you know, we, can, this is a whole other, other kind of episode, but I do think there's a lot of similarities between a Target and a Starbucks, which I'm a very positive person, but I do think we need to address that at some point.
And you know, when you're spending some days, you know, six dollars, 80 cents for a cup of coffee, which kind of seems a little outrageous. And the service isn't what you would expect. Or honestly, a lot of times I just got one yesterday. The taste of the coffee isn't what you would expect. And you go to Luckin, right? And it's two bucks. And you're like, this was like a whole experience, right? Like I'm like, just, you know, it was it was kind of like true, true joy every time. I think it's really interesting. So we're not just seeing
inspiration in terms of, you know, what's old is new again. We're also seeing completely new retailers enter the city. And right with luck, and it was really interesting because their two locate their first US locations were here in New York and that those are pretty recent. And one of the thing I think is important to mention is that companies are starting to redefine what they view as quote unquote retail. Right. So we're hearing commercial banks look at their branches as retail. We're hearing more and more
QSR is looking at their branches as retail, right? The Telcos, AT &T, Verizon, T-Mobile, right? Their locations are retail. And so I feel like the definition, which can be challenging for the two of you, right? It's expanding at a pretty significant rate. All right.
Ben (49:29.666)
Yeah, and it would be rude of me to miss the opportunity to share that as we talk about Lidl, so Joel Rombot, who is CEO of Lidl US is gonna be one of our keynotes at Grocery Shop. And actually I'm gonna be doing the interview with Joel. So we are going to be really diving into the transformation that he has taken for that company in the last couple of years. What the proposition now for Lidl is and where.
Is it going to go next? Fascinating, fascinating business.
Deborah Weinswig (50:00.799)
I think that's one where you've got to be front row. Okay, this is a tough one. I'm just going to throw this out there. The best shop talk or grocery shop moment you've witnessed.
Ben (50:17.044)
I'm going to share my favourite story. My favourite story, I think this was ShopTall 2018. I will wait to be corrected. But we had Tim Steiner, who's CEO of Avocado Group, did a keynote and it was incredible because Tim, as a British guy...
Deborah Weinswig (50:36.602)
Peace.
Ben (50:44.098)
basically stood there and shouted at the audience or told everybody in the US that they're basically they were doing e-commerce wrong. And it was great. I was simultaneously hooked by his performance, but also slightly embarrassed because there was a bit of the British coming and telling everybody that they weren't doing these correctly. But it was a spellbinding performance that Tim put in and everybody was talking about it afterwards.
And six months later, they signed a deal with Kroger and entered the US. none of this was coincidental. And I was always captivated by this. And this is something that I've been thinking for a long time. So I'm really pleased that this year, grocery shopping, I wrote me a day on Sunday, for the first time since then, Tim is coming back to grocery shop and he's gonna do a keynote on the Sunday afternoon. And we're gonna talk about, okay, look, the world's changed a lot since then.
What's the best model now for doing grocery? Your big automation capex, is it still the way forward? Where does that work? Where shouldn't it work? What next for a cardo? How are you the fastest growing retailer in the UK grocery right now? So there's so much to talk about. And it's kind of a lovely full circle moment from what was.
Joe Laszlo (51:59.779)
Think he's gonna tell the Americans they're still doing it all wrong?
Ben (52:03.084)
I would imagine so, but no, Timmy's a brilliant presenter and I'm sure he will pitch his story to the audience accordingly. So I'm very much looking forward to that one.
Joe Laszlo (52:14.357)
It's funny, you'd think that mine really should be about like the most inspirational or prescient or just brilliant insight somebody's delivered on our stage. And instead, I'm going to lean towards Shop Talk Fall last year, the first one, where our theme was Retail's Mission Possible. We leaned a lot into like secret agent movies and kind of spies as the visual look and feel of the show. And Sharon Price-Jaw, the chief executive officer of Build-A-Bear, was one of our keynote speakers.
I've never seen a senior executive like vibe with the theme of one of our shows so much before. She was like, we talk about it a lot, but we spell it mission P-A-W-cible. So mission possible is a thing for them. And she had the Build-A-Bear team make a spy bear with like a trench coat and dark glasses and a suit. And she brought the spy bear and spy bear sat on stage with her. And she held her own against spy bear. didn't upstage her. She had really smart things to say about, you know, building
Ben (52:56.919)
Hahaha
Joe Laszlo (53:14.171)
retail for younger shoppers today, but I really kind of loved that she didn't just have strong insights, she kind of got in with the spirit of the show as well.
Deborah Weinswig (53:25.957)
I love that. All right, last question. Now it gets personal. If you weren't running content for these events, what would each of you be doing?
Ben (53:36.93)
That's a great question. I would be somewhere in the retail industry, probably somewhere in grocery, doing something for a retailer somewhere probably.
Deborah Weinswig (53:51.139)
That's very specific. All right.
Joe Laszlo (53:51.139)
somewhere.
Joe Laszlo (53:54.585)
Well, I don't know. I'd talk with you, Deborah, if you got any open spots for a seasoned industry analyst. But if that didn't pan out, I would probably try to find a second career doing something related to sailing and just spend time on a boat.
Ben (54:00.14)
Ha
Deborah Weinswig (54:02.808)
Always.
Deborah Weinswig (54:13.381)
I like that. All right. Well, thank you guys. think we covered, well, we kind of in some ways scraped the surface because there's so much changing. But at the same time, I feel like we were able to kind of dive into some of the more important moments and upcoming topics. Joe, do you want to kind of let people know what's ahead and the dates and what they should be looking for?
Joe Laszlo (54:21.209)
There's so much to talk about.
Joe Laszlo (54:40.963)
Sure, absolutely. So Shop Talk Fall is coming up fast. It is September 17th, 18th, and 19th at McCormick Place in Chicago. Three days exploring the future of, I don't know.
what retailers and consumer brands outside of the grocery space need to know to be ready for the next six months or so. then Grocery Shop is the very end of September. It's September 29th, 30th, and October 1st in Las Vegas at lovely Mandalay Bay. And that will be where the grocery CPG, convenience, mass beauty, and a bunch of other categories related get together to talk about what the future holds for them.
Deborah Weinswig (55:21.689)
Perfect, thanks.
Ben (55:22.006)
And if you're planning your travel to a grocery shop, make sure you turn up on the Sunday, which is the 28th, because we're actually gonna kick off content this year on the Sunday. yeah, content all the way through from early afternoon on the 28th.
Joe Laszlo (55:30.649)
Thank
Thank you. Should we redo that? I forgot. That's totally my bad. Let me re-answer that question, or I'll answer the question for fall, and Ben, you can jump in and talk about grocery.
Deborah Weinswig (55:46.021)
Yeah, that's a good idea. Yeah, and we can, we like remix all this,
Ben (55:49.589)
Okay.
Joe Laszlo (55:50.189)
Yeah, sorry. I'm so used to us doing three day shows now. I forgot we were back to Sunday. So anyways, ShopDuck Fall is coming up fast. It will be September 17th, 18th, and 19th at McCormick Place in Chicago. It will be the place for leaders from retail and consumer brands, largely not grocery and CPG focused to get together and talk about what the future holds for them. And Ben, you want to take grocery shop?
Ben (55:53.249)
I know.
Ben (56:17.762)
Yep, grocery shop.
Mandalay Bay as usual from 28th of September through to the first of October. So that's a Sunday afternoon start. So it's the traditional, I'm not gonna say old fashioned, but it's the traditional Shop Talk grocery shop model. So we're starting on the Sunday afternoon, content from early afternoon, keynotes on Sunday afternoon, all the way through to content again on Wednesday morning. And that's groceryshop.com where tickets are still available.
Deborah Weinswig (56:48.313)
Yeah, and I think, I will say, I think a lot of us really do like the Sunday start because, you know, on, let's call it Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, where you've got to kind of stay up with emails and text and WhatsApp and WeChat and Kakao, whatever channel you're in, you know, you've already had...
this like deep dive of your brains, you've got kind of the, if you will, the landscape. And then a lot of this additional information is either just going to help, you know, kind of verify or have you question your thoughts. And then Joe, I think what's really interesting this year about Shop Talk Fall is almost this crescendo right into the end.
Joe Laszlo (57:33.655)
Yes, we are planning a program to end with a bang. We have a whole bunch of really interesting content on Friday afternoon. Climaxing, I suppose, with a closing mainstage keynote with none other than Gary Vaynerchuk, who...
I don't quite know what he's going to say, but I know it's going to be really interesting. We have him talking about day trading attention and the alchemy of brand building these days. So leaning back to that ShopDocFall retail alchemy theme and having seen the man speak before, I don't know what he's going to say, but I know it's going to be fascinating and super important. So, yeah, so anybody coming to ShopDocFall should absolutely be planning to stick around through the close of the show on Friday afternoon.
Deborah Weinswig (58:16.655)
Yeah, I don't, when I saw that announcement, I was like, if I were to think about how do you keep people at an event, ending with Gary Vee is about as good as it gets. So congratulations to both of you. I think these are both going to be amazing events and I look forward to doing a wrap up afterwards and we can see how right or wrong we all were as well and give ourselves each a, I'm very much, I like.
Ben (58:36.589)
Yes.
Deborah Weinswig (58:45.861)
I very much like constructive feedback. Constructive is the important part because I always want to know how to get better. I think that we could, and I think you guys are that way too. I think we could all give ourselves a report card and see how we did. So looking forward to seeing both of you. Congratulations on two really amazing shows because the content is really, I would say, I think of the moment what we all need to hear.
And I think the biggest challenge is going to be how do we kind of clone ourselves to be in more sessions than one at a time. So when you guys figure that out, I look forward to hearing it. But thanks again, and we look forward to seeing you in person soon.
Ben (59:20.333)
Yeah.
Ben (59:26.978)
Thank you, Deborah. We'll look forward to seeing you and being on stage together really soon. So yeah, see you shortly.
Joe Laszlo (59:32.067)
Yep. Yeah, thanks for having us today. It's always a pleasure talking with you. Cheers. See you.
Deborah Weinswig (59:36.003)
Thanks, take care, we'll see you soon. Cheers, bye.
Thanks Deborah, and thank you for joining us this week. Coresight Research is a global team of analysts, data scientists, researchers, and consultants literally working around the clock to bring the latest best practices and retail innovations to our clients. If you’re not already a subscriber, visit Coresight.com to access free reports and learn more about all the ways Coresight Research can support your success. Have a wonderful day and we’ll see you next week.