In this episode of Retaili$tic, Deborah Weinswig speaks with Laura Siegel Rabinowitz about the recent Supreme Court ruling on tariffs and its implications for the supply chain. They discuss the refund processes for retailers, the impact on consumers, and the evolving landscape of trade law. The conversation also touches on the importance of compliance, the role of AI in enforcement, and the future of domestic manufacturing, particularly in the context of national security. Laura shares her personal journey in trade law and offers insights for those looking to enter the field.
Takeaways
The Supreme Court ruling on tariffs is a significant development for retailers.
Refund processes for tariffs are expected to be expedited due to public attention.
Companies need to proactively mitigate risks associated with potential class action lawsuits.
The landscape of tariffs is changing, with new regulations being introduced.
The green trade movement is gaining traction, but companies face challenges in prioritizing sustainability.
Domestic manufacturing, especially for PPE and pharmaceuticals, is a focus for the current administration.
Compliance with trade laws is becoming increasingly important for companies.
AI is being utilized by customs for enforcement, creating new challenges for importers.
Specialization in trade law can provide a competitive advantage in the industry.
Personal experiences and insights can guide career paths in trade law.
Chapters
00:00 Supreme Court Ruling on Tariffs
05:29 Consumer Impact and Retailer Strategies
10:41 De Minimis and Sourcing Strategies
15:51 Compliance and Duty Mitigation Strategies
Philip Moore (00:00)
Welcome to Retaili$tic, the official podcast of Coresight Research for March 3rd, 2026. This week, our CEO, Deborah Weinswig speaks with renowned international trade lawyer Laura Rabinowitz about the recent Supreme Court ruling on the International Emergency Economic Powers Act; what their ruling means for tariff policy, and some potential class action risk for companies who petition the government for tariff refunds.
But before we dive into this vital conversation, Isla joins us from the London office for a quick preview of some of the research our members will see this week on corsite.com.
Isla Meldon (00:41)
This week, we're taking a closer look at the rapid rise of online grocery in the US, exploring what's driving the surge, who's shopping online, and why the momentum looks set to continue. also go deeper into retail real estate trends with our monthly StoreTracker Extra report. In China, our latest consumer survey insights reveal how shopper sentiment is evolving. also continue our early holiday 2026 coverage, focusing on the retail technologies to start planning for now.
Fresh data. Practical insights and forward-looking analysis all coming this week.
Philip Moore (01:12)
Thanks, Isla. Now here's Debra and Laura.
Deborah Weinswig (01:15)
We are very excited today to have my dear friend Laura Rabinowitz join us on Retaili$tic. So Laura, thank you so much. There's been so much news in supply chain really for the past year, but a certain large announcement last week and maybe you can kind of like boil down for us the essence of it and then we can go from there.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (01:38)
sure.
So yes, I mean, we were waiting for that Supreme Court decision. We didn't know when it was going to come. Our argument was in November. The Supreme Court has until June to announce their decisions for the term. And then we had Friday morning at 10 a.m. You'd have to be living under a rock not to know about SCOTUS's opinion. Affirming the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit, affirming the Court of International Trade that the use of the AIPA statute was
Deborah Weinswig (01:52)
you ⁓
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (02:06)
inappropriate by the president, exceeded his authority, the administration's authority under the executive to add tariffs pursuant to IEPA. So now the ruling, which I thought was brilliantly done by the Chief Justice, Chief Justice Roberts, and he worked very hard, we know, to get that coalition of six justices to support his opinion.
Deborah Weinswig (02:18)
in it.
I think that it was interesting. We had a firestorm, you will, of media inbounding. my original take was rebates to the retailers could be meaningful. It could be longer. It always is longer than we think it will be. ⁓
And then Laura, just as we were preparing for this, you mentioned something that I think many of us haven't thought about, which is it's great, right? I'm looking at it from a retail and tech perspective. right, the retailers will be rebated, refunded, et cetera. But you mentioned a few other things that we haven't thought about. Can you maybe elaborate? Sure.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (03:08)
Sure. So we can
first talk about the refunds. So first of all, opinion, the Supreme Court opinion was silent on the issue of refunds. But the case is now going back to the Court of International Trade for the court to order a refund process. And they'll work in conjunction with US Customs and they'll order US Customs to do that process.
The opinion was silent on whether there were refunds and what the refund process is. I was a little concerned before the opinion came out whether there would in fact be refunds. I didn't really understand how that could happen, but it was a possibility, but I don't think it's a possibility now. I think there will be refunds. The administration has been very clear. They'll issue refunds with interest, although that's not terribly gallant of them because it's statutory and any, any customs refund comes with interest.
Deborah Weinswig (03:38)
Thank you.
Thank
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (04:01)
There will be a refund process. Now I'm reminded of
The last time there was a similar case, which was over a harbor maintenance fee in the late 1990s, where it was the same, where there was a statute. ⁓ Plaintiffs said it could not collect a duty based on that statute. It was over harbor maintenance fees. It went to the Court of International Trade, Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit, up to the Supreme Court, invalidated, very same procedural stance as here, went back to the Court of International Trade to issue a refund process.
And at that time, it took the court five or six months to issue that refund process, which entailed at that time having to file an action in the Court of International Trade and an administrative procedure with customs.
Deborah Weinswig (04:35)
Thank
Bye!
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (04:47)
Two things. First, I don't think it's going to take five or six months for the court to announce a refund process. because there's tremendous public attention here, to say the least. There are bills pending in Congress already for an expedited refund process. The plaintiffs in the Court of International Trade Action have already filed. The plaintiffs that went up to the Supreme Court have already filed actions in the Court of
Deborah Weinswig (05:10)
Thank you.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (05:15)
international trade for an expedited refund process. There's so much public attention. The governor of New York yesterday said there should be an expedited refund process. So I don't think it will take five or six months. And the other difference is now everything with customs is very electronic. All import data is in customs So technically, customs could issue retroactive refunds instantaneously without an importer having to
Deborah Weinswig (05:24)
you
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (05:44)
to do anything. They have all the data in their system. Do I think that's likely to happen? Probably not, but it definitely is a chance. They did that fairly recently. I'll just tell you, if you're familiar with a generalized system of preferences, GSP.
Deborah Weinswig (05:45)
Yeah.
Thank you.
If you have
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (06:01)
underdeveloped countries or
developing countries and it's country specific and product specific and it Congress for a few years and then it was reauthorized and then Customs says we'll issue refunds, I mean it was pursuant to the bill, we'll issue refunds for the past year and importers didn't have to do anything because there was an indicator on their entries. Well that's the same here. When you were importing under AIPA there's a specific code so they
Deborah Weinswig (06:09)
I will be here.
That's good.
I think.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (06:28)
do this. I think the chances are unlikely but it definitely is a
Deborah Weinswig (06:31)
you
So if you had to place your bets on the amount of time this will take, what do you think that looks like?
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (06:41)
I don't think it will take months for them to issue the refund process for the court and customs to come out with the refund process. think the bigger, the question that I don't know is whether companies will have to file in the court of international trade or just file some administrative procedure with customs. Whether it's a protest mechanism or not. It might be a protest.
Deborah Weinswig (06:48)
Okay.
So if they're...
that could be. So if they're then getting a refund, then what's happening from a consumer facing perspective?
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (07:14)
So we fully expect the plaintiffs' bar to be very aggressive and to go after retailers who are getting refunds. And there even bills in Congress saying that customers should be getting the refunds. So there are some companies that made statements at the time, starting when the tariffs went up, starting on products of China in February of 25.
Deborah Weinswig (07:15)
It's fully.
you
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (07:35)
or the rest of the world in April, including the EU. So for luxury items, there were some companies that made public statements and said, we're raising our prices because of the tariffs. So I think they're very exposed. Other companies didn't make such statements and may have raised prices across the board, either at the tariff rate that they were charged. Let's say they're from the EU, so a total of 15 percent, or China, whatever the rate was sliding.
Deborah Weinswig (07:42)
Thanks.
Thank you.
Thank you.
video.
I'm nervous.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (08:04)
from very high to still high. or some companies raise some product categories but didn't raise others. But even if there are defenses, it doesn't stop the plaintiff's bar from being very aggressive. And we fully expect that. So companies should be doing things now to mitigate that risk.
Deborah Weinswig (08:24)
Like what?
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (08:25)
There were ways, and I'm not a class action attorney, I'm trade attorney, but I've now been on a number of calls with class action attorneys, counseling clients, and there were ways to, they call it diffuse the class, things that companies can do proactively.
Deborah Weinswig (08:28)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Okay.
I'm familiar with with just some of the work that we've done over time and Do you think that there's anything Just kind of thinking outside the box right so if you think about the First of all there could be a lot of negative backlash against certain retailers, which would not be good Is is there any way for them to kind of okay? We're gonna get this refund. Let's say it's ten dollars We put it in this account
And then, we're not taking that kind of, well, of course, we're getting the refund, so we'll have to handle it from ⁓ financial purposes. But if we allocate that to our consumers during that time period, how do you advise the retailers to kind of think about this, not only from a comms perspective, but also in terms of how they're thinking about it structurally?
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (09:30)
Well, they can try to get,
we don't know how long it's going to take for the refunds to come, right? It could take two, three, it could be automatic. It could take two, three years, which is I think sort of maybe a reasonable expectation or the president said it could take five years. So we don't know how long it's going to take. So in that interim, while they're waiting for the refunds, companies to diffuse the class could give some smaller rebate at
Deborah Weinswig (09:48)
Do it.
Okay.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (09:59)
of sale, for example.
Deborah Weinswig (10:00)
you.
That's, I mean, that's an interesting idea. And so now we have, the whole thing with like AEPA. We are now in this kind of refund rebate moment, but now there's a whole new.
I feel like I just keep on opening all these doors, right? Like, each door gets either smaller or bigger. I'm not sure which way it's going, but depends on the day. So now we've just opened this new door on tariffs. Can you walk us through that?
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (10:30)
Yeah, so
right away, Friday afternoon, the administration announced an additional 10 % on all products coming into the US pursuant to Section 122 of the Trade Act of 1974. So some good news. First of all, the statute of limitations on the Trade Act of 74 is only five years. The statute of limitations under AIIPA was 10 years. So.
Deborah Weinswig (10:44)
Right.
Hmm.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (10:59)
That's some good news. And 10 % if you're from the UK, it's a wash, 10%, 10%. Companies in the EU, sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse, depending on what the general duty was.
Certainly from China, 10 % is better than not, or Vietnam, you know. So it really depends on what country you're sourcing from. so the president has 150 days. So from February 24, it went into effect on February 24. So technically right now, the 10 % across the board is going to expire July 24. Whether it survives to July 24 or not is an open question because there will be motions for an injunction
Deborah Weinswig (11:19)
Okay.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (11:40)
against ⁓ section one, the use of section So we don't know if it's going to survive till July.
And I want to say one other thing about Section 122, the use of it and the executive order that came out on Friday is that there are two annexes of exceptions. So there's a whole swath of products that are coming in duty free. Well, actually, there's general duty, but exempt from the 10 percent by the way.
Deborah Weinswig (11:59)
Good.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (12:11)
textile and apparel products that are compliant with DR CAFTA, which did not exist under AIIPA, except for the recent trade agreements.
Deborah Weinswig (12:22)
That's interesting.
That's really interesting. you know, De Minimis impacted, I think, more folks than we would have expected, right? know, Lululemon talked about it one of their earnings calls, right? Lululemon is a Canadian-based company with warehouses in Canada. they, right, going back to it, I think even the companies, when they were providing original financial,
updates based on the tariffs. Remember on third quarter earnings calls like some of the numbers they were throwing out were just kind of like mind numbing and foggling I guess all at the same time. Where do you think we go with with the minimus?
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (13:00)
So as of
this week, when the 10 % across the board is in place.
What the when I've been talking to companies this week is, you know, we no longer have de minimis. Let's enter all the merchandise, as much merchandise as we can at 10 percent, because we don't know it could go up to 15 at any time as the administration has been threatening or 122 could be disallowed and they could have an investigation pursuant to Section 301, which seems to be impervious to litigation. And the rate could be much higher. So 10 percent.
a manageable rate. So I think the companies that have a de minimis set up still with a warehouse in Canada or Mexico are now trying to enter as much as they can while this 10 % window is open.
Deborah Weinswig (13:44)
much.
that's interesting. And a lot we can talk about with ESG, sustainability, whatever kind of umbrella we want to use. But we're seeing a lot happening at the state level. Can you kind of walk us this idea of like the green trade movement, what that looks like, where we are and what you're seeing people do and have success with?
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (14:12)
So for the European companies I work with, ⁓ this green movement and sustainability is very important to the companies.
Deborah Weinswig (14:13)
you.
I'm going to switch to you.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (14:20)
There are a number of proposed state legislation in the US. There's some proposed, the CBAM equivalent for the US. But it hasn't really gone anywhere. There hasn't been a lot of traction. Like the fashion bill in New York has been sort of languishing in the state assembly for a while.
Deborah Weinswig (14:23)
you
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (14:41)
I don't see that it has a lot of legs at this time. And companies, unfortunately, have to have other priorities. They may have wanted to focus on sustainability and green issues, but the tariffs, the numbers are so overwhelming for companies. mean, certainly for small companies, but even large companies are really struggling with the, like you said, you saw the number, you heard the numbers on the earnings call, the numbers are staggering.
Deborah Weinswig (14:42)
Thank
you
I mean, hundreds of bases point of negative impact to margin. And then, you know, the challenges, I don't think many people, I mean, at least not the chief supply chain officers we talked had necessarily expected the ruling. And so they've also started to lean more into, right, like higher price goods, if you will.
So I think the challenge is, thinking about their assortments, it's like the ground keeps moving underneath them.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (15:39)
very much so. ground is moving.
Deborah Weinswig (15:40)
very much.
how do they, without having located in Washington, how do they stay on top of all this and how do they position themselves?
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (15:52)
So if we go back to first Trump administration, when the tariffs were just put on products of China, It's about 2 thirds of the products coming from China under Section 301 have additional either 25 % or 7 and 1
That was put in effect in the first Trump administration, kept in effect during the Biden administration and still in effect. So I would say from July 2018, the sourcing strategy was anywhere but China, right? And we spoke a lot about nearshoring, moving to other Asian countries. That was the sourcing. So that's how you kept the ground sort of stable and protect yourself. Then in the second Trump administration, where there were tariffs on every country, could companies move
Deborah Weinswig (16:34)
Thank
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (16:35)
move
from one country, country of origin, from one country to another country to reduce whatever the percentage was, right? If you move from the EU to the UK, there was a differential or you move from China to Vietnam, there was a differential. And even that makes an impact if it was a 5 % difference, right? But now we don't have that.
Deborah Weinswig (16:40)
don't know what to do.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (16:58)
AEPA is gone. So what's your companies do now? And that I think that that's your question. So there are certain constants in trade law that are still here, like the rules of valuation, for example. So if your unit price, whether your unit price is $1,000 a unit or $10 a unit, there are legal ways to reduce the value of the goods upon which duty is based.
There were certain, for example, were certain legal deductions that can be taken. International freight is always deductible. Foreign inland freight is deductible if it's set up correctly. Foreign port charges. Then there were other strategies to reduce the value of the goods.
Deborah Weinswig (17:42)
So...
So just with all this, with things being so dynamic, and even staying on top of something like AGOA and whatnot, how are they, without having somebody based in Washington, how are they able to follow this? How are they able to align their sourcing strategies? Or should they just outsource it? What's the right thing for them to do and how are you helping to guide your clients? ⁓
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (18:09)
Well, I do
not recommend outsourcing it if the company is the importer of record because all the liability is with the importer of record. And by the way, the only parties to date that are available to get the refunds from IEPA are the importer of record.
Deborah Weinswig (18:27)
Thank
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (18:28)
So if a company, you know, on the line thinks that they're entitled, if IEPA costs have been passed on to them, but they're not the importer of record into the U.S., they should look at their commercial agreements with the importer and see if there's a possibility or get that agreement in place prior to refunds being issued. so as I mentioned, enforcement is up, so compliance has to be up and companies have to look at the classification, the valuation and the origin.
Deborah Weinswig (18:37)
We can't help you.
Thank you.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (18:56)
So, trying to really reduce the value, the constants in value. Looking at royalty payments, for example. Sometimes royalty payments have to be included in the value declared to customs, but other times if the supply chain transaction is structured correctly, royalty payments can be deducted.
Deborah Weinswig (19:01)
you
you
Okay.
you
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (19:17)
There are, we've
been drafting exclusivity agreements with foreign suppliers to try to reduce the value of the imported goods to make that thousand dollar a unit, make it something 750 or $10 to $8. But so there are lots of sourcing strategies that can be done in terms of duty mitigation.
Deborah Weinswig (19:31)
Thank you.
And then on a completely different topic, but during the pandemic, you know, having myself spent a lot of time working in supply chain, there, you we had helped different senators and congresspeople think through, right? If we have another event like this, how do you protect and make sure we have enough PPE, you know, manufactured domestically?
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (19:54)
you
Deborah Weinswig (20:03)
Where is everyone kind of thinking about domestic manufacturing, especially around PPE? What, if anything, has actually really changed?
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (20:13)
So I think the Trump administration
has been very clear that they like their tariff They like the idea of tariffs with a goal of increasing domestic manufacturing. And we haven't really seen a tremendous shift that way yet, but they're working to... ⁓
Deborah Weinswig (20:26)
Thank
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (20:34)
I mean, they've announced that they're working the new investigations that they've been doing, the ones that they've done already, the Section 232, Section 301 was just on China, but they're going to be rolling out additional investigations with an eye toward increasing domestic manufacturing, particularly of the products that they consider crucial for the United States, which would include the pharmaceuticals, PPE, things that we discussed during the pandemic. So I think we're going
Deborah Weinswig (20:40)
Thank
Thank you.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (21:04)
to see because AIIPA is no longer, the 10 % under 122 is temporary. I think the focus of the administration is going to be on these which so far have been impervious to litigation. So we're going to see targeted countries and targeted products within those countries.
Deborah Weinswig (21:21)
Thank
Why do think that?
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (21:28)
Well, they've announced that they're going to be looking into certain products in certain countries.
I think they realize, particularly after the Supreme Court case, that this just blanket across the board is not going to survive. And it's a stopgap measure for them. The only way, like the 301 on China, which still stands.
Deborah Weinswig (21:41)
Good luck.
Thanks
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (21:53)
There's a class action lawsuit against the administration still going on. The cert was just filed to the Supreme Court. That's been going on since like 2019. But it's going to be successful. The way they rolled out 301 for products of China, there was an investigation, federal register notice, notice and comment. It was done pursuant to law. So I think.
Deborah Weinswig (22:13)
you
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (22:14)
AIIPA may have been rolled out to, well, it was rolled out without an investigation because the statute doesn't require an investigation, but the use of Section 232 or 301 requires an investigation by the Department of Commerce. And then do their investigation, how quick or slow that investigation is, but then there's, publish it in the Federal Register. There's opportunity for the public to comment and then they add on the additional tariffs.
Deborah Weinswig (22:18)
Thank you.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (22:44)
So it's a much safer route and it's more targeted. Like the 232 that we have in place now, we have, you know, steel, aluminum, copper, but it's the derivative products that's sort of the dangerous list. The stainless steel sinks and counters and windows. And then the kitchen cabinets, upholstered furniture.
and autos and auto parts. It's a very long list and it's the list is going to get a lot longer as they roll out their investigations.
Deborah Weinswig (23:08)
Bye!
Yeah.
What do you think that ultimately looks like?
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (23:18)
I think they're going to be issuing Section 232 tariffs on a lot of different product groupings this year.
Deborah Weinswig (23:25)
So it's interesting. hadn't planned it, but I was talking to a dear friend of mine yesterday he said a lot of what you did, which was this idea around enforcement, because he said they're seeing dollars, I think, much greater than they had expected. So I'm, as a former Wall Street analyst, I'm always like, you know, kind of show me the money and follow the money. What is that telling us?
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (23:50)
Yeah, I mean, there's going to be enforcement. And by the way, the Department of Justice in the spring of 25, the criminal division issued a memorandum which was released to the public talking about their priorities for the year in terms of enforcement. Trade fraud and tariff evasion was number two. So the importing community is on notice that
Deborah Weinswig (24:00)
Thank
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (24:15)
It's not just US Customs, there's a joint task force between Customs and the Department of Justice. And there are lots of statutes, as I talk with my colleagues who are white collar defense attorneys, there are lots of statutes that the Justice Department can use, whether it's at the corporate level or the C-suite. So it's a dangerous time. As I said.
It's heavy enforcement. So really have to look at compliance while balancing. Try to being aggressive, but compliant in your declarations to customs and reducing the value as much as you can. Companies should be aggressive because the tariffs are just too burdensome.
Deborah Weinswig (24:46)
Good.
I mean, ultimately, okay, we're gonna get this refund. It'll end up in consumers' pockets, let's say, sometime in next five years, maybe. But you can't, I mean, the math doesn't work, right? You can't raise prices on inputs and to not have inflation. does that leave us?
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (25:19)
Well, I can't speak to the inflation, but ⁓ I think companies slowly have raised their prices, whether it's across the board, raising the prices or strategically. I spoke to one company this week that had raised certain product categories and they said, well, just because the tariffs are gone or, have much reduced for us and that company is all in China. So it's major reduction down to 10. They said, we're not going to lower our prices.
Deborah Weinswig (25:31)
Thank
you
Thank
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (25:49)
Those are baked in now. know, and I think that specialists in consumer attitudes and buying trends know, you know, there's a way to roll that out. I don't think companies are going to be rolling that back anytime soon.
Deborah Weinswig (26:05)
let's go back to the higher prices, because I think what's interesting in some cases, right, we've seen some of the retailers who I think are putting more make into their good now. And so what we're seeing in some ways is like, the stronger stronger.
And I find that to be very interesting. And so if you're improving the quality of your product, what do you tell companies to document? How do they think through kind not only for their own processes, but for any documentation they need externally?
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (26:41)
Yeah, so because companies, as you said, the strong get stronger. So because those companies are being, as I say, aggressive on their pricing.
Deborah Weinswig (26:49)
Thank you.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (26:53)
and what's declared to US Customs, which is my focus. Those agreements are more important than ever. Agreements with the manufacturer, agreements with customers, memorializing how you arrived at certain questions. mean, or, you know, what is the country of origin or or that royalty agreement that you that agents agreements. If that's set up correctly is also a legal deduction from the
Deborah Weinswig (26:56)
Mm-hmm.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (27:20)
you declared. So we're looking at a lot of agreements and making sure they really protect the importer.
Deborah Weinswig (27:27)
And this is a personal question. How did this is such an I mean, I spent a lot of my time in this area just by chance. But how did you end up in this area of law? Because in my outside of kind from being in Washington and whatnot and especially during the pandemic, I spent a lot of time in this area. how it's such a unique area. It's fascinating and complex. But but what drew you to it?
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (27:52)
So, okay,
well, here's my personal story. So my father ⁓ was also had an international practice. So that's the household that I grew up in. We grew up wherever his project was at the moment. ⁓ He worked a lot in the energy industry with underdeveloped countries was where we traveled to. So I knew I wanted to be a lawyer like him and I wanted an international practice.
Deborah Weinswig (27:54)
Thank you.
Thank
Mm-hmm.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (28:21)
And I wanted to live in New York. So I grew up in Washington. I wanted to live in New York. so US Customs Chief Counsel's office, which is based at headquarters. When I was working there, it was under the Department of Treasury. Now it's under Homeland Security. They still have an office in New York, which is part of Chief Counsel that does the litigation in the Court of International Trade. So I thought...
You know, I'm fresh out of law school. This is a court that has exclusive jurisdiction for the United States on international trade. That sounds interesting. And I didn't know anything. But what was interesting about that office, and it was really happens to me, that's how I ended up there. But what was interesting about that office is the court of international trade filing, other than these once a generation cases like AIPA.
Deborah Weinswig (28:59)
Okay.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (29:16)
The cases that get there have gone through an administrative process. So production is years past. Ordering, POs, that's years before. And then there's a whole administrative process. And then if the importer is not happy, most of the time the plaintiff in the Court of International Trade is the importer. And then they sue the customs as the defendant. And so I was working at customs, representing the customs in the court.
So you'd get a big, in those days it was on paper, you'd get a big file and production was years before. And then, so I was there for a number of years. And then I went to private practice, which I actually think is more interesting because you're helping companies with their sourcing strategies and their agreements pre-production. Where should we source? How should we price our goods? How do you know, how can we do this legally and being aggressive and
Deborah Weinswig (30:05)
Thank
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (30:14)
knowing that at the end of the line, something goes south, you could end up in the court.
Deborah Weinswig (30:18)
So you were involved in this during quota, right? And so that was kind of my background when I was at Liam Fung, right? Liam Fung had bought up a bunch of quota, et cetera, et And so that was, as that organization evolved, think they had their challenges. But can you take us through, most retailers that are with us today, they've been through that. What did they learn from that?
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (30:40)
you
Deborah Weinswig (30:47)
How do they make business decisions? And then what do think they're learning from today's environment?
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (30:53)
Well, one thing I find very interesting, know, quota was a very tough time for companies. I think it was very tough to, know, like companies like Lienfong could buy a quota, but for a lot of companies it was very difficult time. And then quota went away.
Deborah Weinswig (31:06)
Thank ⁓
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (31:11)
in this industry, I it's still in other industries, but not in this industry. And then in the agreement that the Trump administration made with Indonesia just Thursday of last week, it seems like another century ago, but Thursday of last week, there's quota for apparel products.
Deborah Weinswig (31:12)
Thank
you
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (31:29)
in that Indonesian agreement. Now, it's not ratified, it's not signed, but that was the agreement that they, so I find it very interesting that it's the first time I've seen that, that the administration has gone back to a quote for textile and apparel, has gone back to quota. So we'll see as they work out what happens with their trade deals, which now all need to be looked at.
Deborah Weinswig (31:51)
you
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (31:53)
and other trade deals, are they gonna go the route of quota? Other than, know, sugar from Brazil still has quota, but for textiles, are they gonna go the way of quota? I think knowing the difficulties of the past, I think it would be another hurdle for companies that are importing. But maybe there's opportunity where you can...
Deborah Weinswig (32:00)
Yeah.
I did.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (32:17)
I don't want to say like game the system, but figure out when the quota is going to close and how much you can get in and be really strategic. And again, as you said, the stronger will get stronger. I think it'll be very difficult, but it'll be interesting if they go that route.
Deborah Weinswig (32:27)
release for teaching.
Thank
And one more question before we get to the lightning ground, is always the funnest part here. We're starting to hear about more AI and enforcement versus compliance. And I think the US Customs is now using AI to map different footprints before a shipment leaves the port. a client's internal due diligence
match the sophistication of what the government is focusing on.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (33:01)
Well, the government has a bigger budget than most companies. So even when there are reauthorization issues. ⁓ So I think companies really need to focus on what is their risk and then spend accordingly. So we know some of the tools that US Customs is using. They've announced it publicly. We don't know all the tools. We know some of them.
Deborah Weinswig (33:04)
That is true. ⁓
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (33:26)
was on a demonstration with a company that does satellite imagery of ⁓ particularly looking for forced labor, you know, farms. but the background of the, they have contracts with U.S. Customs and other government entities. Like they didn't, this company just didn't start with forced labor. They've been doing other satellite imagery for other, many other issues in the past.
Deborah Weinswig (33:45)
Thank you.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (33:51)
But I don't know many companies that could afford this company, but we know that US Customs is using it, for example. But there are lots of AI tools that companies can use, but I really think companies should spend according to their risk in their supply chain. So if you're an importer of electronics, you have the most risk.
Deborah Weinswig (33:52)
you
Mmm.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (34:14)
You know, of the, actually checked the statistics before we spoke today, the forced labor statistics. And to date, 39 billion of worth of goods have been detained Weaver Forced Labor Act. Prevention Act went into effect in June of 22. I'm sorry, I misspoke. It's 3.9 billion. 3.9 billion.
Deborah Weinswig (34:20)
Okay.
Bye.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (34:36)
worth of goods have been detained, of which 3.2 billion is electronics, which is right, right? For 196 million is base metals and 96 million is apparel, footwear and textiles. Only 96 million of the 3.9 billion. So certainly if you're in cotton apparel, you have higher risk than other.
Deborah Weinswig (34:43)
wow. ⁓
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (35:01)
apparel, but I think we should, you know, keep it in perspective. And the number of shipments to date that have been detained is over a little over 69,000. So if you think of the enormity of this, and that's for all that's for all that's total number of shipments. And that's clearly much of that is electronics.
Deborah Weinswig (35:15)
what
That's crazy. All right, we're gonna move over to the lightning round. We have 10 questions in five minutes. I know you can do it. And if you wanna pass, I need you to say pass. Number one, favorite trade term.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (35:26)
Okay.
Okay.
Well, it's just going to speak to how straight I am. I'm going to say FOB.
Deborah Weinswig (35:42)
Oh my god, that's like, that
was mine. Cause I was like, the minute I understood what that was, I knew I had like crossed over into, I don't know what, but I was like, that was, because like when you're studying it in school, you're like, this thing's like absolutely no sense. But then when you actually really do understand, that's so funny. I knew that we had that shared passion. Let's give it, all right, number two, the hardest part of your job.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (36:01)
It's just it's, yeah.
would say starting in 2025, seeing particularly the smaller companies, I work with a range of very large multinational, to, I also work with some smaller companies or even middle-sized companies that are just, hundreds of millions just struggling with the increased tariffs. They've really been in onerous.
Deborah Weinswig (36:18)
Thank
Yeah.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (36:34)
Yeah, that I would say in 2025, that was definitely the hardest.
Deborah Weinswig (36:37)
Number three, most underrated skill for a trade lawyer.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (36:41)
Well, I'd like to think that we're not going to be replaced by AI and that there is some value to experience and judgment.
Deborah Weinswig (36:41)
you
I think that that's, I mean, we've seen that absolutely the case. And I was on a call with somebody yesterday and they're like, the future is for the learners, right? Like, and I was like, that's exactly who I am. And I think you are too. It's like those who love to learn, right? Because you're going to always probably be ahead, at least for many until we're at like super intelligence, right? Which is above AGI.
Right, the more relevant, the more questions you ask, the more curious, which is exactly who you are. think that we're always going to be relevant. All right. Number four, best city for a trade
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (37:26)
Okay, so don't be envious, but I go to Venice once a year for a luxury ESG conference. You can come with me next year, it's in the fall in Venice. It's lovely.
Deborah Weinswig (37:30)
Good. ⁓
I think I'm put that
one on my calendar, that sounds great. ⁓
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (37:40)
But I'll say, but
I'll say, but this year I'm at post SCOTUS ruling, customs annual conference, which is always fun. This year it's in Dallas. Anyone on the line should sign up and come and come join me for dinner. It's at the end of April. It's in Dallas. That is going to be a really fun conference this year for us trade nerds.
Deborah Weinswig (37:49)
Thank
Perfect, it sounds great too. Alright, one tool that you can't live without. It's like solution, you how you do your job. Could be coffee.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (38:12)
Okay, this is going to sound like my friends had really trade nerdy, but I cannot tell you how often I am on the White House website looking at proclamations of the president and executive orders and rereading them and staying on top of them.
Deborah Weinswig (38:25)
more than this.
can't even imagine how you stand top of everything, especially over the last five years, five, six years. It's, I mean, it's like every day you wake up and there's more to learn.
you were a trade lawyer, what would you be?
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (38:41)
⁓ definitely a professional tennis player.
Deborah Weinswig (38:44)
I love that. ⁓
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (38:46)
But it's a good thing I
have my day job because I don't think I'd make much money if I were on the pro circuit.
Deborah Weinswig (38:53)
I've met more
people who play pickleball and like the last two days I'm like I've never tried it but I definitely must. I love it. And we have a lot of young listeners, right? Those who are in college and trying to figure out kind of next steps in their career. What advice would you give to them?
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (38:59)
I'm a tennis
Someone said this to me, and I think it was really good advice, was having a specialty. So I sort of told you my route to getting into the trade world, but within the trade world, like,
Deborah Weinswig (39:13)
Thank you.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (39:25)
There are like a lot of lawyers, you know, but it's really being a specialist in working with importing companies. That's the way, and I think particularly for a woman, and I think I still would say that, you can still have value and have a great career.
Deborah Weinswig (39:25)
Thank you,
Absolutely. think that, I mean I'll tell you, I'll tell you, I think my son was like, if I'd only listened to him I would have had the greatest stock call of my life. He's like a year and a half, right? He's been on like a bunch of store tours with me and we're out of Kohl's and he's like, why do they sell picture frames here?
And I was like, you know, I couldn't, I couldn't, right, because it was, it was a little bit, right, they do a great job in like soft home and whatnot, but you know, starting to go to hard home and, it was just, and then like, I kid you not, like four weeks after that, the stock completely collapsed. So sometimes I think when we bring our children along with us in our, in our work, right, we, should listen to some of their insights. So Lauren, thank you so much. I've never had an hour move so quickly. And this topic, I think we've just scratched the surface.
I look forward to having you on again soon, especially after I spend some time in Washington next week. But thank you so much and we look forward to seeing you again.
Laura Siegel Rabinowitz (40:43)
I would love that. Thank you, Debra.
Philip Moore (40:45)
And thank you for joining us this week. Corsight Research serves our members with leadership communities, strategy, consulting, technology assessment, data resources, seminars, conferences, proprietary research, and more. Visit us at corsight.com to learn about all the ways we can support your success. Have a wonderful week.