James Jackson shares insights from decades of experience in consumer goods and retail, discussing how data science, AI, retail media, and evolving shopper behaviors are transforming the retail landscape. This episode explores the future of category management, private label, and the role of technology in creating more personalized and efficient shopping experiences.
Key topics
Chapters
00:00Introduction to James Jackson and episode overview
02:28The evolution of retail events and networking
04:01The changing landscape of retail stakeholders
05:42Educational focus and industry innovation
07:04The role of data science and AI in category management
09:07Career journey into category management
10:40Impact of technology on the role of category managers
12:36Balancing art and science in retail decision-making
14:54Online shopping trends and consumer behavior
17:25The rise of professional shoppers and store formats
22:48Private label strategies and market impact
27:22The influence of Aldi and private label on retail
32:03The role of nutrition and health in retail
36:34Data-driven education and consumer trust
37:43The future of health and wellness in retail
39:47The impact of retail media and monetization
40:01Lightning round: retail trends and strategies
Philip Moore (00:00)
Welcome to Retaili$tic with Deborah Weinswig brought to you by Coresight Research. In this episode, James Jackson, VP of Strategic Partnerships at the Category Management Association, brings his perspective from decades of experience at Tyson Foods, Radian, Nielsen, and Supervalue on the changing landscape of consumer expectations and brand strategy.
Deborah and James discussed the impact of Instacart and DoorDash on in-store experience, the role of private label, retail media, and agentic commerce. But first, Dana is here to catch us up on what Coresight Research has on offer for us this week.
Dana (00:40)
Thanks, Philip, and welcome back to the Retaili$tic Podcast. Here's what we're covering this week. Our report of the week is a market navigator on US grocery retailing and how quick commerce, AI, and polarized consumer needs are reshaping competition.
We've also got a weekly earnings insights for the second quarter of 2026, as well as a US Consumer Survey Insights data release, a playbook on loss prevention technology, a predictions update on China, and a look at the retail tech landscape for online shopper convenience, as well as a piece on what the retail health store of the future looks like and how AI can support it. Plus, our latest US and UK store trackers. Now for the events. We're at Etail Boston running from August.
August 10th through the 12th. Then on August 15th, our own Deborah Weinswig takes the stage at NACDS Total Store Expo in Boston to talk on retail health and AI. And on the 16th, we're hosting an executive leadership dinner in Boston on the future of retail health and the role of technology. And save the date our own Coresight conference: how AI is redefining the possible is coming up on September 28th in Nashville at Tractor Supply Headquarters. That's the week, let's get into it.
Deborah Weinswig (01:51)
James, we're so excited to have you on this edition of Retaili$tic. We had the opportunity to spend a lot of time together this February in Las Vegas at Caesars.
James (01:58)
You do. Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (02:02)
And it was, I will say, a group of people who were so interested in so many of the things that I am, which is understanding the details of the industry in order to
James (02:13)
Mm-hmm
Deborah Weinswig (02:13)
kind of put together the bigger picture. So, right, taking a lot of the patterns.
And building it up as opposed to looking at it from top down. It was kind of bottoms up. Which is how I think you ultimately understand things. Tell me about the people who are in the room and let's let's start at the bottom and like work our way up.
James (02:28)
Yeah, so so and and thanks again for being a keynote, that was awesome.
Deborah Weinswig (02:33)
So fun.
James (02:34)
so the group consists of a number of different we'll call it stakeholders. So we have CPG manufacturers, so those can span from Fortune fifty all the way down to emerging companies, startups. we have retailers that are in the room, kind of the same thing. So you could have
somebody mostly regional retailers up to the largest chains in in the country and some even outside of the US. And then a significant part of that audience are solution providers. So that is a mix of people who are sponsoring. but if you think of like the NIQs of the world or the Dunhumbies of the world and so on,
So the big guys, as well as we have some that are startups as well. so we have an area for them. And we are actually seeing a lot of innovation come in and we'll probably talk about that more later. But it's a pretty interesting group. and like you said, it's really people who are trying to, I guess one get educated. So we have a group that is kind of more maybe junior or what have you, all the way up to your senior leadership.
that's networking and also looking kind of at the higher level conversations. And that's kind of where you came into play to, you know, how do we think about the future, what's happening and how does that impact my business?
Deborah Weinswig (03:50)
Can you about over time how the event has evolved and changed and how are those who are in the room, what are they looking to kind of go home with, if you will?
James (04:01)
Yeah, as far as the evolution, and and I can't speak to maybe day one because it was about twenty years ago, but I I think when when the event initially started, it was really more about networking. that networking is still kind of a cornerstone. So you have you know, people that my gosh, I haven't seen you since last year and that's their way to kind of reconnect. So people even from competing companies that are sharing information and you know, they're kind of
having
their side side banter. so you have those people. you have people that are newly connecting and then you have actually we have now in the remote world teams that will have their sales meetings there. So so it kind of started that way. And that again is still a huge component. But like you know I mentioned there's an educational component. So we have workshops. So when it comes to AI or we had a workshop on Power BI
or something around storytelling with the presentation company. So how do I learn about things that are fundamental to my role so that I can do it better or learn something different. And then we have different breakouts that are talking about key topics that are at the forefront of the industry, all the way down to let's talk about, you know, hey, this this solution provider has added this component to their their portfolio. Let's learn more about it.
And then you know we we have kind of the higher level conversations as well. So it is turned to I think more heavily focused on education and and kind of the let me understand what this how this applies to me and to my organization. Networking's still a big portion, but it's growing. And actually this upcoming year we're gonna see even a bigger change towards kind of what's happening.
What do I think about it? And then how do I activate against it?
Deborah Weinswig (05:45)
Well, think that's that's the biggest challenge right now for everybody, right? Which is I learn all
James (05:49)
huh.
Deborah Weinswig (05:49)
of this yeah, I I have all these great conversations. I learn so much at these events,
James (05:53)
Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (05:53)
but then how do I activate it when I get back home? And
James (05:56)
Exactly. Exactly.
Deborah Weinswig (05:57)
so if if someone can help connect those dots, I think that the t A, we probably spend our time differently at these events. but B, right, you probably continue to see a growth in the community, but also
James (06:10)
Yes.
Deborah Weinswig (06:10)
right
And people I think want to stay in touch as well 'cause it goes back to right, there's so many people right, you go to events, you're exactly right. It's like I see them once a year. But it
James (06:16)
Yeah. Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (06:18)
has to also kind of have those moments in between that that keep you rooted back to the event.
James (06:22)
Right. The only thing I I'll add to that is because you mentioned it and I forgot to to touch on it. So and Chris Conroy is kind of leading this. every speaker we are asking them to deliver or share with the audience two or three things that they can do today or tomorrow as I walk away. And if it's, you know, a thought or a process or here's something that, you know, is tangible.
that I can use to to kind of implement in in what I'm doing later on. So, you know, even things like we're doing bus tours and and other things. So it's like, okay, not only am I learning it, I'm going to see it.
Deborah Weinswig (06:59)
Yeah.
James (06:59)
And then try and understand how do I apply that to what's happening in my organization.
Deborah Weinswig (07:04)
Well, if you think about it, right, with category management, I mean it is so much of it is so visual. And
James (07:09)
Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (07:09)
so I do think kind of I I've always enjoyed doing store tours, as long as we're not just kind of like I I did one recently I it was so interesting of Grand Central. Right, because
James (07:18)
Mm-hmm.
Deborah Weinswig (07:19)
they have a huge amount, right? They have over a hundred retail locations there. So you would have thought of it as being kind of Yeah,
James (07:24)
I didn't know that. Okay.
Deborah Weinswig (07:25)
it was it was wild. And there's like I felt like there's like this whole hidden part. I mean it was it was unbelievable. And
it goes back to right it it starts to change how you think about things because right we still spend most of our time in the physical world and when the physical world is
James (07:38)
Mm-hmm.
Deborah Weinswig (07:39)
different than you expect you then start to kind of put that layer on top of everything. And so I mean, you started off in kind of retail and category management. Can you I think you I remember you being at Supervalue. How how did you kind of choose your career or did it choose you?
James (07:54)
gosh. when it comes to category management and I think and and I've talked to a ton of people and they kinda all stumbled into it. I think I've known one person that actually went to school and and was taught category management. That's changing a little bit, but it's still it's still the predominant situation. I was actually working for Pepsi. and I was a
a manager in in central Wisconsin working with the bottlers. And this was back in the late nineties. And if you remember back then, PepsiCo owned Taco Bell, KFC, and Pizza Hut.
Deborah Weinswig (08:27)
yeah.
James (08:27)
Right? So we were competing against those entities and against Coke who also was dominating internationally. So all this money was flowing in and you know a restaurant would say, well why would I work with Pepsi? They're my competitor down the street.
And so this term category management was floated because we were looking at how do we get our basically our fair share in sea stores and so on. And so that's kind of where I first heard about it. kind of a personal situation. we were living in Appleton, my daughter, my first daughter was born, and we decided that we wanted to meet either move back to Minneapolis, where my wife is from, or Chicago, where I'm from. We decide on Minneapolis, and that's where I found the role at Supervalue.
And so I really didn't know a lot about it, but I saw it was very similar to like brand management. And I always wanted to be a brand manager. So I said, this might be a cool opportunity. And I've never left.
Deborah Weinswig (09:19)
I so I've been to Appleton, by the way.
James (09:21)
Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (09:22)
I will say
it's probably I think I showed up in like six inch heels back when I was in banking and I'm like I don't remember I'm like, What is this? Why is
there so much snow?
James (09:30)
Yeah.
Snow and green. Green for the Packers, yeah. Yeah. yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (09:35)
I think I I had never seen so much snow in my entire life.
and and I still outside of a skiing even
James (09:44)
Yes. yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (09:45)
then it might have been more. So what what were
James (09:46)
Yes. Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (09:48)
you doing in Appleton?
James (09:49)
I got transferred there. I I didn't
Deborah Weinswig (09:51)
Sheesh
James (09:52)
necessarily choose that. I thought I was gonna be in Chicago and I got moved up there and yeah, that was different. So but it was it was something that it it pretty much launched my career in the category management because of what I learned. I still apply some of the things,
Deborah Weinswig (10:07)
Interesting.
James (10:08)
you know, from from that experience and and competing and talking to all the retailers and things like that and just understanding the brand side of things.
So so yeah, it wasn't a plan at all. My wife was like, Why are we moving up here? And it's like, because that's where they told me I'm going. So yeah. And so yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (10:21)
That's that's that it that's where I'm pointed right now. Very cool. What
how do you think the with you know, kind of data science and what we're seeing in terms of a lot of these technology changes, how is that changing the role of the category manager?
James (10:40)
God. It it is a huge topic right now. I and
Deborah Weinswig (10:45)
Mm.
James (10:45)
I'll just I'll I'll kind of narrow it down to this. and I've talked and it's actually I I think I did a post kind of on it. the best category managers up until the past couple years were very good at the science. So we within category management we say that we're good at the art and the science.
But it was tipped more towards the science. So if you were a good analyst and you could really leverage Power BI and you could churn through data very quickly, but you were doing it on your own, you were a star. Well, now with AI and some of the other technology, it could do all that. So it it creates parity potentially at that level. So now instead you still need it, you still need to ask the right questions, but now it's becoming more we're
We're thinking it'll be more the strategic and the artistry of it, the the creative side. So now that I have all this data, what do I do with it? How do I connect the dots? And how do I kind of curate something that's specific to my primary shopper that I know I should know better and be able to deliver? Because otherwise, I mean it's like you it comes down to price if all of a sudden you don't have something that's really compelling to the shopper.
But that all starts kind of bat in the back room where how do I how do I bring all these data points together? Well, AI can do that now. But you know, what do I do with that information? How do I tell better stories even in the store? How do I create different experiences? And you know, you you presented the the whole thing on agentic. Now that's gonna change everything completely. So how if the center of the store is potentially I don't wanna say hollowed out, but
it'll
if a lot of that is going to agentic or online, maybe the perimeter of store becomes much more and it's already important, but much more important. And and and yeah, so that I think the the the balancing of the art and the science, I do think the scales are gonna tip more towards the art.
Deborah Weinswig (12:36)
It's really interesting. I mean, I I also think that right we have more shopper data than ever before. But are retailers actually making better decisions or have we simply become better at producing dashboards, like you said with like Power B I, et cetera?
James (12:51)
Yeah.
I think there's still room for sure. it kind of goes back to the art piece, but I I I always use the term we you know knowing that you're up, down, or sideways is great, but if you don't know what's behind it, then it really that's just data, right? If you have a great presentation, but it doesn't get executed, it's just paper. And so
When it comes to kind of and I think as retailers and manufacturers, you know, the hope is that accelerating through all this data, and we have a ton, you know, what's the right data, what are the right questions, but then really collaborating, it should allow you more time to have those good convers those strategic conversations, build initiatives that really matter, be able to test them, you know, maybe whether it's in real terms or synthetically or things like that.
and and then be able to kind of whether it's fail fast or really execute quickly. but I I I do think there's room. but I'll I'll tell you the other thing and I I did a post on this on Monday and it kind of goes back to you still gotta have the humanity of it all and the human touch. AI is not gonna give you all those answers. So you still have to have that overlay of okay
in practicality what what's gonna work for you and me as a shopper and and really go back to the fundamentals and I think, you know, if we forget about that, we're that's where retailers will fall short. But I think there's the other side where you're seeing some retailers I think do better than others, or where they're I mean you you look about omni channel, right? So if your store does not reflect what happens online, if it's not in harmony, that's a problem. And so
Can I spend more time on what do I put in store versus online? How do I how do I have that all go together? You know, how do I make it a better experience? Because online is driving a lot of the decisions in store. So, you know, and we as category managers, most of us have been raised on a brick and mortar environment. So understanding the online is gonna be, I think, even more critical and all the all the levers you can pull.
associated
with all all those different touch points.
Deborah Weinswig (14:54)
Yeah, you you hit on a nerve for me, which is I So
James (14:57)
Uh-huh.
Deborah Weinswig (14:58)
in March, right, there's those periods of real I feel like we just had a lot going on in terms of a lot of travel, a lot of this, a lot of that. And because, you know, as somebody who's always followed the retail industry, right, like I'll use I I like to go into physical stores to see what's happening, but it became I'm like
and I'm starting to realize like how much time I'm spending. So I like, you know what? I'm just gonna you know.
in where I live, I'm just gonna order on Amazon and I I was like, this is amazing. I can get Amazon Fresh, I can just get Amazon Foods.
James (15:24)
Yeah. Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (15:26)
I'm like, I got three different grocery carts going at the same time. I'm like, you know, today I want Italian, tomorrow I want Greek, that I Mexican I mean it was it was amazing. I'm like and and easy and you know you know total price transparency. So
James (15:37)
Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (15:37)
I have to say that whole kind of initiative of mine lasted longer than I expected. And so this is true true confessions I feel
I don't think I fed into a physical store in right, like literally in several months. And because I've been traveling a lot for work and working and I'm just like trying to make sure we've got the got what we need. And I and actually when I would travel to a new location, I would right for for work, I would then go and see the malls or the you know, the retailers there, but for personal consumption purposes. So two different
James (16:06)
Yeah. Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (16:08)
right one is research and and one is personal consumption.
And so I went I went to my local fairway two days ago. And it's about like the end of my day, let's say eight o'clock. And when I tell you the difference between July and March, it was
James (16:24)
A hundred percent.
Deborah Weinswig (16:26)
astounding.
James (16:27)
Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (16:28)
Because half of the shoppers had black carts that you want to make sure you didn't get in front of because they're lar large and
James (16:34)
no.
Deborah Weinswig (16:35)
heavy.
And they're like professional shoppers, right? This
James (16:36)
Yeah. Yes.
Deborah Weinswig (16:39)
is like DoorDash, etc. And so I went back the next day. Same thing.
James (16:44)
And
Deborah Weinswig (16:45)
I'm definitely going back today. So now of course I'm going in like every day, like making up for a lost time. But I I felt that so I'm very lucky where I live. There's like especially being in a city, I can probably walk. I mean, I can honestly walk in about 15 minutes. I mean, I could probably hit a hundred retailers pretty easily.
And so but where so then I went to Target, same thing. Not not with the big black scary carts though. and and what and I was at Morton Williams, which is also owned by Wakefern which is who owns Fairway, but I'm like, as a consumer, as you're starting to see this this rise of the professional shoppers or whatever want to call it, how does that start to impact where things are on the shelves, right, from a category management perspective?
James (17:25)
Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (17:25)
Because and then
and then where does private label fit into all this?
James (17:29)
gosh. you threw a added one in there. let let me touch because the first one's a little more challenging, I think.
Deborah Weinswig (17:37)
Yeah.
James (17:37)
we actually did we we had a summit last year and so a store can actually play multiple roles. So it can be just your normal shopping trip for individuals.
It can be a warehouse. So it can support online. And you have some stores where it's heavily skewed towards that. Target is an interesting one. it can also be a media channel. And so when it comes to the kind of managing the online versus you know individual shopping, those are totally different. If you think about
like Instacart or so, you know, those I'm gonna call pickers because they're almost like they're in a warehouse. That flow sh it should be different than personal shopping. And so you know, a retailer or a store has to make a choice, like, who am I going to serve? And I think right now it's still a category manager is building it out for for the personal shopper for us.
Which makes it potentially I'm assuming less efficient for those professional shoppers.
Deborah Weinswig (18:35)
I mean they were I I was shocked because, you know, I met it you it's like you're you're going back and like greeting your your
James (18:41)
Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (18:41)
your friends. I'm like, and and here are the potato chips and here's the ice
James (18:44)
Yes.
Deborah Weinswig (18:45)
cream and like, my gosh, look at they have all this new stuff.
James (18:48)
Yeah. yeah, because
it's yeah. You're you're they're trying to inspire you to, you know, buy more than you plan on buying and things like that. But but that picker
Deborah Weinswig (18:57)
I'm and I'm I am the most vulnerable.
My my my it's funny, my family,
James (19:01)
Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (19:01)
my friends are like, all the stuff at checkout, they knew you were coming.
James (19:04)
Yes. Yes. Yeah. But that
but that professional shopper, they're not they're they're doing a job, right? And so they're not picking, I think, you know, Deborah's gonna like this because she they're not doing that. So it does create this rub where I mean you'll see dark stores and things like that. but we're not seeing a lot of them. So then all of a sudden it does become how do you how do you manage that? And
If you don't do it well, you can either make it very difficult for you and me as a as a human personal shopper, as the professional shoppers are getting in our way and all that stuff, or vice versa. the other
Deborah Weinswig (19:43)
Yeah. I was definitely intimid
I was intimidated, I will have to be honest, because they also had and I'm sure there's they had almost like a a wagon, right?
James (19:52)
Yes.
Deborah Weinswig (19:52)
And so I'm like, first of all, the New York stores are small. So right like
James (19:55)
Mm-hmm.
Deborah Weinswig (19:56)
I I you know, I'm very athletic, I can navigate, but I'm like, my gosh, I'm like it it was a it was a lot of the square footage was I mean I'm truly like this is what was going through my mind
James (20:03)
Yes. Yes.
Deborah Weinswig (20:06)
is is being consumed between the these huge black carts and
James (20:10)
Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (20:10)
these these kind of wagons. And so I felt like I kept like looking around. I'm like I I did and I like I I I'm sp I have to see what was going through my mind. Is I'm like, I'm I'm supposed to be here, right? Right. Like it's it's okay to be here. Because and then I mean it used to be right, even with self checkout there'd be long lines. I mean there was like no line. Because I think as a consumer, I mean I it it starts to feel like it's not my store.
James (20:35)
Mm-hmm.
Deborah Weinswig (20:36)
And that was a very like I said, I mean, I have I there a hundred times, probably multiples of that. But I it like the first time 'cause I said it's like I'm like seeing my old friends, I'm like, they got this new kombucha and right, like it and and then and I also found a where the the sales associates have typically been, you know, kind of can I help you? This and the other. I felt like they were right, because you think about it, much bigger baskets with the pickers. And so, you know, we're
they would like make eye contact with you as you're walking down the aisle, kind of, you know, making sure you got what was on your list. They the their attention was turned elsewhere. And so I so I feel like the whole dynamic is starting to change.
James (21:14)
it it can change. and that that's again kind of I think where somebody's gonna have to make a choice. Because and and I'm I I was trying to look it up. I can't remember the name of the movie, but there was a movie about a Silicon Valley company that was and they were competing and a bunch of stuff, but but there was a scene that I saw
And this been about three, four years ago, where the guy and his, it was either his girlfriend or a coworker go into a store and he's the only person that's shopping for himself. Everybody else, it literally it shifted to almost what you're talking about.
Yeah, I'll have to I'll look it up. But and I and I t I told my wife, I said, I think one day the store's gonna just become a warehouse. Because it look like that. But we don't want that, right? So all of a sudden it's what what is that role of the store? And if it's the
Deborah Weinswig (22:06)
Hm. Big
James (22:08)
if it's that, then okay.
I guess we need to understand it and all of a sudden you have a smaller and I could just see where, you know, the majority of the store is literally like pick lanes, you know, and slots and then you have a smaller set for general shopping or or the reverse, right?
Deborah Weinswig (22:25)
So so we have this, right? Now what's so I was on a call yesterday that I was I was running with a closed door group and I hadn't ex right, this is why it's what we do is so interesting, is I hadn't expected to come out of the call it did, which was that we're starting to see real changes in private label and its role, right, in a grocery channel, or going back to as a
James (22:46)
Yes.
Deborah Weinswig (22:48)
margin driver.
James (22:48)
Yes.
Deborah Weinswig (22:48)
I mean you get the and if you're a retailer, you've got this interesting private label media. Private label media. So how
James (22:55)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Deborah Weinswig (22:57)
how are you seeing so let's track each one, but what are you seeing right now with private label? Because I think I mean I will say as somebody who's always been very I would look at his differentiation. my gosh. Do you know I think they're calling it is it no name? I mean James, I had flashbacks
To one my childhood, my parents were very frugal.
James (23:18)
yeah, I know what you're gonna say.
Deborah Weinswig (23:20)
And and so it was the cost cutter from Kroger. It looked exactly like that with the yellow and the black. And my daughter's like, This is like the hottest thing now. I'm like, my god. I said to her, I said, I said, You have no idea. Like my friends would come over, and I always said to my parents, I'm like, please just pour it into the Cheerios box, right? Like, don't, you know, I but it was
James (23:38)
Yes. So
Deborah Weinswig (23:39)
there was like a shame about it back then.
James (23:42)
So a and a hundred percent. I grew up in Chicago and like Aldi, for instance, back then, like you wouldn't be caught dead in Aldi. And it and it was generic. Like they had generic the bla and I think it was black or white or whatever.
Deborah Weinswig (23:56)
It was black. It
was white white white white with black lettering and and you and so friends would come over and you're like putting that
James (23:59)
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Deborah Weinswig (24:02)
all
James (24:04)
yeah, you didn't that's like I would be totally ashamed, right?
But what
Deborah Weinswig (24:08)
This meet.
James (24:08)
you're seeing and then there was so because I've been around for a while. So then you had like compare and save, right? So you had your national brand and then you would have your private label right next to it, and it was all about cost. I'm gonna duplicate
Deborah Weinswig (24:21)
Yeah.
James (24:22)
the same thing and it's just gonna be cheaper, I get more margin, lower price.
I think there's still that happening out there because of what's happen. I mean, we we had the bifurcation of our shopping public, and so people are looking for basic fundamentals. Salt is salt, right? I mean you could kind of spice it up, but if I need just basic salt, I could go for private label and it doesn't need to be flashy. But where retailers are trying to differentiate themselves, it's hard to differentiate yourself with a UPC item other than price.
So using private label to change the game where there's nowhere else I can get that private label than at Wegmans, right? And that
Deborah Weinswig (25:01)
Right.
James (25:02)
specialty item that only Wegmans creates, it's under their private label, that that becomes a signature item for item for them, and that drives traffic. Or just the Halo effect of like Costco with Kirkland, right?
Deborah Weinswig (25:15)
yeah.
James (25:16)
And so
So it is a differentiator, but it's still and and you'll see tiered programs. So you'll see premium and then you'll see a different private label. So you're seeing all that. That's a challenge for CPG brands Because
Deborah Weinswig (25:29)
Yeah, I mean
It it's and and ha well how do how do they look at that, right? And how do they think about their differentiation when you start to get this this tiered strategy?
James (25:39)
I mean it's it's definitely they're competitors. A private label is a competitor. for some of your national brands, for some of your regional brands, and it I think it's changing a little bit. But regional brands, they're really under attack because you only have so much sp space on the shelf. And as a category manager, I would look and I would say, I need two national brands and a private label.
Maybe ri so if I had three regional brands I might keep one and the other two get discontinued.
Because I'm replacing because a lot of times the regional brand might be lower priced, but I was bringing it in because I got slotting for it and things like that. But that's other than that, it doesn't really play the role. Now you have some retailers that you know local matters and things like that. So it it still happens. But for the CPG landscape private label, it is a competitor.
When we did the store tour at in Vegas last year or earlier this year, and we were at Aldi, we had people that were on the sh on the bus that were like, either one, I've never been in an Aldi, or two, I don't see Aldi as a competitor. I don't need to care about Aldi. And then we had some people that were like, We didn't care about Aldi until Aldi
Had something happen in the supply chain and they reached out to us and they asked us to bring in some product, and then all of a sudden we realize how significant they were. Because you have a lot of a lot of CPGs that won't produce a private label. And they're saying that so they're having to make a choice. Am I gonna stay true to my brand and not have a private label arm? But some of them are having to change. So
I don't know if it's a lot, but but Costco, Aldi, private label in general, it has it has a significant impact on that on that market.
Deborah Weinswig (27:22)
It's interesting you mentioned Aldi in Chicago since I lived in Chicago for five years. And I'm I've always you know, as an athlete, always been very focused on the ingredients. So and I will tell you unequivocally, right? Lowest sodium, lowest sugar, all these products.
James (27:37)
Following.
Deborah Weinswig (27:38)
So that's what drove me there. So I mean I remember being in business school and people are like, Where are you? Like, you know, my people come over and I l I had a few roommates and people are like and they and they were they were more curious. And so
James (27:49)
Yes.
Deborah Weinswig (27:49)
it's like I started to right like ha be this influencer at
James (27:53)
Yes.
Deborah Weinswig (27:53)
the University of Chicago on people going to Aldi because people were like, Wow. So I save, I'm spending one third of national brands and it's healthy.
James (28:01)
Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (28:01)
What's the catch, right? And then on and then
James (28:02)
Yes. Yes.
Deborah Weinswig (28:04)
like the whole twenty five cents that you put in the cart, people are like, This is the coolest thing ever, right? In terms of changing
James (28:08)
It it is. Mm-hmm.
Deborah Weinswig (28:10)
behavior. So I I think that the you know, and they I mean what to me what's been amazing is so we, you know, changed our location during the pandemic. And the closest grocery store to us, which was not that close, was Aldi.
James (28:25)
Mm-hmm.
Deborah Weinswig (28:26)
And so every Friday
For many reasons, I would just go to Aldi and I I spent a disproportionate amount of my time there each week. I'll just leave it at that. But it was like my only time away from my family, right? I was like finding solace in the Aldi.
James (28:35)
Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (28:40)
As was everybody else in Aldi. So you start like it was the I know, I know. It was
James (28:42)
That's pretty sad, Deborah.
Deborah Weinswig (28:46)
it was a very but you know, and and we would all talk to each other. It was like it was like my my s my it
James (28:50)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (28:52)
was way more than an hour that I was in there. I'll just leave it at that.
And so y I mean, I probably for a while there could have, you know, from a I have a fairly photographic memory. I mean, I knew it was in every aisle. I could tell you if they put in one new skew in the entire store, that's how well I started to get to know the products. Yeah.
James (29:05)
Yeah. God. Okay.
Deborah Weinswig (29:07)
no, I'm telling you, I was like and I actually started to I because you know, I'm a researcher at heart, I started to literally like write everything down. I mean it I took it to a natural obsession.
James (29:13)
Yeah. Yep. Yep.
Deborah Weinswig (29:17)
But it was really interesting to watch how they handled certain things like eggflation.
Right. So they would limit the number of amount of eggs you could buy, but they really kept the prices low. So if I were to go across
James (29:28)
Yeah, yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (29:30)
the street to just say any one of the number of other retailers were
James (29:32)
Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (29:32)
right, it was like nine dollars and ninety nine cents. It was still two dollars at all, but I could only get twelve. Which was
James (29:37)
Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (29:37)
fine. Because it started to change how I I felt about how they took they ultimately put the consumer in the center. And that was just a different
James (29:45)
Yes.
Yes.
Deborah Weinswig (29:47)
A a
different approach, I guess, is the nicest way to put it.
James (29:49)
Yeah, so Marcus Schroeder, who he was at our conference and I spent a lot of time with him and I've talked to him since, as well as Karsten Court Courtham. They're they're kind of partnering and they're really looking at Aldi. he he talks about Aldi and just how relentless they are. Like just
Everything has to be dialed in. Every skew has a role. It's not a category role. It's a skew role. And then Karsten said something to me a couple weeks ago. So when you ask a category, like people don't a lot of people don't know what category management is, and you have to describe it. And we'll say it's you know getting the right product at the right price at the right time, you know, and I'll add to the right people. Carson also added at the right quality.
And I had never heard that before. But that's what that's how the it's Lidl in a way too, but Aldi, it's all and that's what you see Costco doing. And so when you understand your shopper really well, and you know, we say category management, but shopper is like at the forefront of that. It should be. you have to understand all those. And now in this world of health and wellness, and you mentioned ingredients, it's even more so.
Right,
because I mean, even retailers now are saying, okay, you can't have these certain ingredients in your products. And I think I just saw was it Kellogg's or General Mills that just said we we've accelerated our removal of certain ingredients in our cereals to address what's being pushed out by the retailers and the requirements they have. So what you're saying is literally being accelerated. GLP one's kind of drove some of that.
but I just think in in general, even people, whether they're shopping at Aldi and they're low income all the way up to affluent, health and wellness is at the forefront of everybody's minds. And and so people are looking at it and they have their phones. So if they're already
Deborah Weinswig (31:36)
Yeah.
James (31:36)
curious and they're doing it, they are looking and then if you don't understand what that ingredient is, one, that's probably bad. But then two, you can look it up in a in a heartbeat and find out and okay, it does what? no.
Nope, don't want that product. So it's again putting a lot of pressure on the brand.
Deborah Weinswig (31:53)
Which then takes us to GLP one.
James (31:55)
Mm-hmm.
Deborah Weinswig (31:56)
Because I will say probably some of the most interesting conversations I've had in the past twelve months have been around this topic.
James (32:03)
Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (32:04)
And and really around category management, which is not what I would have expected. So you you were you
James (32:09)
yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (32:09)
were right. I mean, which is which is why I've I hey, right, which is why I'm absolutely fascinated with what you guys do.
James (32:12)
Yes. Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (32:14)
Fascinated or obsessed, however you want to look at it. But the
James (32:17)
Ha ha.
Deborah Weinswig (32:17)
I've sat with many brands and both
James (32:20)
Mm.
Deborah Weinswig (32:20)
have right and and they all have different points of view. Some wanna be looked at as, you know, a brand that should be in OTC and HBA, right? They're they want to be looked at as wellness, but not
James (32:28)
Yes. Yes.
Deborah Weinswig (32:31)
in kind of like the regular grocery aisles. And I've talked to others who absolutely want to be in the regular grocery aisles and feel that the customer, right, when they're shopping for A B or C, right, they know that that product, you know
they can find something that's, you know, higher protein, et cetera, in in the regular grocery house, how are you thinking about that? And that's planogram compliance, planogram, you know, optimization,
James (32:52)
Yeah. Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (32:54)
et cetera.
James (32:54)
And I know we've talked about it and I think I've I've kind of changed a little bit.
Deborah Weinswig (32:59)
Okay. That's just gonna be good.
James (33:02)
I think because so before if you had a brand that was specifically focused, let's say on higher protein, right? And so you were in near the pharmacy or what have you, and that was your place and everybody knew to go over there.
And and I'm just coming up with this now. I don't think
Deborah Weinswig (33:17)
Nice.
James (33:17)
that serves you well because
Deborah Weinswig (33:19)
Yeah.
James (33:20)
everybody else is focused on it too. So if you think about protein, protein's everywhere. So why would you be sitting in pharmacy when protein's up and down the aisle in every brand? So I think if it's me, I I would be in aisle in general grocery.
Where all the actions happening. I mean the number of new brands that are coming out. Now and I'll say if it's like grooms, that's gonna be in the pharmacy. But I I'm speaking of like a snacking item.
Deborah Weinswig (33:47)
Mm-hmm.
James (33:47)
There's so many snack items. I mean, you've got PepsiCo coming with naked, and you've got all these and then you got Lesser Evil and all these different brands that are in the general aisle in grocery. If you're off to the side, I think you're out of the game.
I I could be completely wrong. Or you gotta have a secondary display. So you're so you're over in in the pharmacy, but you've got an end aisle or something that you're doing in general because most people are they're just they're going to shop for groceries. And unless I have my app that guides me to that specific aisle outside of General Grocery, you could get missed.
I and that's just me. but I I think there's so much around and again because of GLP ones, where people are looking for specific things, but there's not enough room in the pharmacy to hold all of it either. So all of a sudden you you have to put it there. So I do believe you you need to be with the general population now. and then they could choose. Like you because you also have people, and I'll say this, because we
We have a community with dietitians, and and it was an interesting conversation where some dietitians were huddling up and I'm listening, I'm like, my god. And they were seeing how mom let's say a mom's on GOP1s.
Deborah Weinswig (35:01)
Mm-hmm.
James (35:01)
Right? Well, that impacts the whole family. So they were seeing kids that were having nutritional issues because they're not getting enough of proteins and things like that because mom's shopping. So
Now all of a sudden you have to think about, okay, well, if mom does have a different shopping list, do I want mom to go to all different parts of the store depending on if I'm shopping for me or for my kids? Versus if I'm in one aisle, I can do it all in one aisle.
Deborah Weinswig (35:27)
That's very interesting way to think about it. And I mean I think, you know, you know I've talked about this. I think what's really interesting is that the role of a nutritionist and the importance of them
James (35:39)
Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (35:40)
a is at you know and and I think there's because it goes back to I think there's enough information out there that we're all I mean, if we can't figure out white rice, brown rice, then right.
James (35:49)
Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (35:49)
Be honest, then then then what
can't we figure out? And so I I think we really just need somebody to kind of like help help guide us. And you know, those I think, you know, some grocers do an excellent job of making that available to, you know, to the consumer in the store. And I I think it really changes,
James (36:06)
changes.
Deborah Weinswig (36:06)
you know, how where I think where consumers are spending the time. I I think it's I personally I think it's a huge competitive advantage right now. And that's that's how I look at it.
James (36:15)
So and I'll just follow up with this one thing. When you asked before, are retailers getting it? Are they using the data and making better decisions? The data is saying that people need education. And the data is saying that there's confusion and that people do not trust the brands necessarily because they believe it's marketing.
And so that shopper comes into the store. And whether it's I'm on a GLP one or I have a, you know, a disease state, or my my doctor says I need to go on a diet or whatever, the the doctors are not trained on that. So the shopper comes into the store and they know they need to do something, but they don't know what. And so who are who's going to guide them? Well, they can go on an app and all that. But so the retailers that understand that.
And right now the dietitian or whatever's kinda on the side and they need to be a part of that conversation. And if you want and when I talk about differentiating, that's another way to differentiate. And so the the company so you see like Hyvee and Kroger had a nourishing change conference. The second one was down at Des Moines. I went to that. Ahul jumped in
Deborah Weinswig (37:19)
Mm.
James (37:20)
and said, I want to be a part of it. So in some ways
some of the corporate pillars are because their health and wellness is getting added to that. And so it'll be interesting to see, but I think there's a way for that human connection. You know, I need influencers are part of that online and so on. But that's the next the next wave, I think, because of what we're seeing. And again, it started with GLP1
Deborah Weinswig (37:43)
So we are we are quick I this may be the fast I f I feel like it was like we just started two minutes
James (37:47)
Ha ha ha.
Deborah Weinswig (37:48)
ago 'cause I still have so many questions, but one
James (37:50)
Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (37:51)
one what I really want to make sure that we touch on is around retail media and how that's that's
James (37:54)
Yeah. Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (37:56)
changing, you know, everything we think about retail and brands and how retailers can
James (38:00)
Yeah. Yep.
Deborah Weinswig (38:01)
monetize, et cetera.
James (38:03)
Yeah, in category management it's an interesting interesting one because for the longest we were saying that's not us. That's kind of off to the side. But I think one, it does impact the shopper and how they think. So category management needs to know about it. But two, especially with, you know, some of the brands.
Money is going to retail media that could be going to pay for this promotion and that promotion and so on. And so I think from a brand perspective, you need to know it. From a retailer perspective, if it is literally a profit center, that's not good.
it it should be something to help the shopper. It should tie to the category plan. So if you have ads running in a in an aisle and it has nothing to do with the strategy or maybe nothing to do with the category at all, is that the best approach? I I would say probably not. It should enhance the strategy. So that category manager needs to be involved because they're the they're the ones driving what's happening on the shelf and what's happening with the promotions and so on.
And it should be in lockstep. Online the same way. So if you're doing a lot of retail media and and it's talking about something, I better see it in the store. If I'm going in store. Otherwise, again, that harmony piece of things falls apart. And so I think I I've heard that there are some I haven't seen a lot of retail media actually here in Minneapolis. So I don't see it as much. I've heard overseas there are some retailers that are starting to do a really good job.
But they're also limiting how many screens and stuff like that are in the store. Because that that becomes like NASCAR at some point. So I think there's there's gotta be a good balance. The data that comes out of it can be really helpful. so yeah, I think at least from category manager's perspective, from what I understand, we're kind of still in early stages of how do we utilize it.
Deborah Weinswig (39:47)
Perfect. All right. Well we're gonna leave the last let's say two minutes for our lightning round. So you can pass, you can just say what comes you know, top top of mind. But
James (39:53)
Okay. Okay. Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (39:57)
yeah. All right. So one retail trend you think is mostly hype?
James (40:01)
God. retail media.
Deborah Weinswig (40:02)
Okay. What is the biggest mistake brands make when approaching retailers?
James (40:06)
It's all about them and not about the category.
Deborah Weinswig (40:08)
What skill will every retail sorry, will every category manager need by twenty thirty?
James (40:13)
Can I give two?
Deborah Weinswig (40:14)
Absolutely.
James (40:15)
So one is the creative side, strategy. Need to go from tactical to strategic. The second thing is I I think you need to understand how you use AI and how it complements your role.
Deborah Weinswig (40:24)
that. what is one thing retailers should stop doing immediately?
James (40:27)
I think they should sell versus always trying to extract money from the manufacturers.
Deborah Weinswig (40:32)
promotion or personalization?
James (40:34)
Personalization.
Deborah Weinswig (40:35)
Most overrated retail metric.
James (40:37)
That's
a tough one.
Sure.
Deborah Weinswig (40:39)
most underrated shopper insight.
James (40:41)
Underrated. God, these are hard.
Impressions.
Deborah Weinswig (40:45)
Okay, and last one, one category you think is ripe for reinvention.
James (40:48)
Fresh meat.
Deborah Weinswig (40:49)
Ooh, didn't see that one coming. That's good. Awesome. James, this fantastic. We've gotta have you back
James (40:53)
Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (40:54)
soon because is one of those areas that when you start to slice into it, there
James (40:58)
Yeah.
Deborah Weinswig (40:58)
is so much happening. Thank you for joining us and we'll include a link for everybody to your upcoming conferences and events. Thank you for joining us and we can't wait to have you back soon.
James (41:07)
Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. As usual, we could talk for days. So great, great having the conversation. All right. Thanks.
Deborah Weinswig (41:11)
We can talk for thank you so much. Thanks.
Philip Moore (41:15)
Thanks, Deborah, and thank you for joining us. If you enjoyed this conversation with another Legend of Retail from Retaili$tic, please check out our full catalog of interviews with retail industry leaders and set your notifications so you don't miss any of our upcoming episodes. Have a wonderful week.